Gear or training? what makes the diver?

[dbulmer]

I think gear choice is less important than familiarity with one's gear--whatever it may be--and the development of so-called muscle memory in relation to diving with the gear.

I'm very familiar with my gear but it still does not stop me from dribbling now and again - muscle memory is not infallible

 

[Tigerman]

Which would mean that you would not get better than your first dive, no matter how many dives you make.

You wont, in other ways than bouyancy unless you actively practice skills..

Practice is experience. Although experience may not make you comfortable in the water, I've seen a lot kids who were not enthusiastic about learning to swim become quite comfortable in the water over time from experience.

Yes, practice is experience, but experience is not practice. You can have 340 dives worth of "experience" without having practiced a single skill after your certification...

They may well be comfortable, having no idea of the situation in which they are actually involved. A false sense of security is not a good thing underwater.

When I finally got around to certifying in '80, there were two students in the class that were not comfortable in the water. The instructor refused to certify them and invited them to return for the next class and work with them until they were ready.
I understand that dosen't happen much now.



Bob

Yes, overconfidence is of course an issue with diving as it is with any activity with an element of risk. That overconfidence is one of the things that make people do 60 meter dives on single al80s with no tech training and no clue about gas consumption. For that example its quite often also a result of being oblivious due to lack of education.
As far as an uncomfortable diver being refused and invited to come back after they have gained more in-water confidence, that actually happened in my OW class. He was fine in the pool, but when he moved to the sea he kinda freaked out.

---------- Post added March 23rd, 2014 at 10:42 AM ----------

I'm very familiar with my gear but it still does not stop me from dribbling now and again - muscle memory is not infalible

Ever gone for that DS inflator in your wetsuit?

 

[gypsyjim]

After all the threads on SB that I have seen degenerate into x-fin vs yz-fin, or into what style of flotation a real diver uses, this has a bit of a surprise. A rather pleasant surprise.

I strongly support the skill and experience before gear.

I am a bench jeweler at a high end store. The tools in my shop are quite advanced, ie: a laser, specialty diamond setting microscope, and a myriad of neat power tools.
My tool selection allows me to do some pretty advanced work, but that is because I first learned to do those jobs with the old fashioned hand tools.
Sit a jeweler without that basic skill set down at my bench, and all those fancy smancy tools will not make him or her a master jeweler.

As for this "shifter" side discussion try riding a WWII era Indian. Foot clutch, hand shift on the tank, all ok sounding......until.
Now, imagine you are stopped, facing uphill and have to start up, taking your right foot off the ground, to put in the clutch, shift into first, and then let that clutch back out, gently, without tipping the bike, and or stalling.
Again, skills that only comes with practice.

There I participating in derailing my own thread!

 

[rhwestfall]

Yep! The real "artists" are masters despite the tools. The tools only allow the "artist" to enhance their abilities or do what they are capable of "easier". Without the knowledge and experiences, the tools do little.

I've seen some great kitchens in houses owned by lousy cooks.
I've seen so incredible cars in the hands of poor drivers.
A set of "blades" does not make one a good golfer.
The best cue does not make one a pool shark.
the examples can go on, and on, and on.....

 

[waterpirate]

The gear before training or experiance people are easy to spot. In the kitchen, on the track, at the bench, or on the boat. I recently showed up for a new job with shiny new tools I treated myself to.... I took a lot of $hit for that, but when they fit in your hand like a glove and produce the ribbing stopped. The same is true of the activities listed above.
Eric

 

[maniago]

As for this "shifter" side discussion try riding a WWII era Indian. Foot clutch, hand shift on the tank, all ok sounding......until.
Now, imagine you are stopped, facing uphill and have to start up, taking your right foot off the ground, to put in the clutch, shift into first, and then let that clutch back out, gently, without tipping the bike, and or stalling.
Again, skills that only comes with practice.

And that's why they call it a suicide shifter. Some gear is just flat bad - nostalgia excepted....

 

[The Kraken]

Training, gear, in and of itself, won't stop a diver from doing stupid things and killing himself.

Safe dives . . . .
Safer ascesnts .

the K

 

[TSandM]

I work a lot with students and new divers. I see people in poorly fitted gear all the time, and they struggle to become stable. I have come to loathe split fins, because they make it more difficult for a student to learn to seek stability with his feet, not his hands. I dislike integrated weight BCs in cold water, because they tend to put divers unavoidably feet-down, which makes it virtually impossible to achieve neutral buoyancy. I hate to see people with Air2 type setups and a short primary hose, because the diver hasn't practiced or hasn't thought through the implications of his gear choice.

As I said, a strong diver can finesse almost anything . . . but novices need gear that's simple, fits well, is correctly balanced, and functions.

 

[maniago]

I work a lot with students and new divers. I see people in poorly fitted gear all the time, and they struggle to become stable. I have come to loathe split fins, because they make it more difficult for a student to learn to seek stability with his feet, not his hands. I dislike integrated weight BCs in cold water, because they tend to put divers unavoidably feet-down, which makes it virtually impossible to achieve neutral buoyancy. I hate to see people with Air2 type setups and a short primary hose, because the diver hasn't practiced or hasn't thought through the implications of his gear choice.

As I said, a strong diver can finesse almost anything . . . but novices need gear that's simple, fits well, is correctly balanced, and functions.

Hmmm. For my students, its all about the BC - if the BC fits proper, then everything else falls into line...can't build a solid house on a crappy foundation.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I work a lot with students and new divers. I see people in poorly fitted gear all the time, and they struggle to become stable. I have come to loathe split fins, because they make it more difficult for a student to learn to seek stability with his feet, not his hands. I dislike integrated weight BCs in cold water, because they tend to put divers unavoidably feet-down, which makes it virtually impossible to achieve neutral buoyancy. I hate to see people with Air2 type setups and a short primary hose, because the diver hasn't practiced or hasn't thought through the implications of his gear choice.

As I said, a strong diver can finesse almost anything . . . but novices need gear that's simple, fits well, is correctly balanced, and functions.

You know I agree entirely upon reflection. My first answer would have been experience over equipment - but TSandM's statement abover rings true.

When I got back into diving I could afford my own gear. we only have one LDS nearby so that's where i got everything. My BC was a compromise as i was to big for one size and not big enough for another. At the time I looked upon BI or a Wing as witch craft - I hadn't learn't with them, had no experience so stayed with what I knew (and within the price bracket I'd set)

I never did get on with that BC - - yes I was re learning after a couple of years out but it never felt right. A very short time later I went and brought a wing (my G?F had one and 50% of my club also dived them) I never looked back. Not because the Wing was a magical device but in the first instance because it fitted properly, the fact that it didn't' trap air and that my weight came down instantly was a bonus. My diving then after improved quickly because of further experience yes, but also (perhaps psychologically) my gear felt both comfortable and as one with me - thus making me feel relaxed etc etc...

As a post script - the LDS took the BC off me for the trade value as it was the same as their rental stock. That added to some "extra discount" on my wing and new tanks meant that I wasn't out of pocket and it wasn't sat in my store gathering dust