Good News for US Divers Wanting to Go to Cuba

[drbill]

Since I was alive and cognizant during the Cuban Missile Crisis, I have to say even at the tender age of (censored) I questioned what right we had to stop the Russians from putting missiles in Cuba even if they were aimed at US. At the time we had missiles in Turkey aimed at the Russians. I never could figure out the rationalization. Of course if there were a realistic way to do so, I'd ban all weapons (atomic or otherwise)... if the really bad guys could be tamed.

 

[Darnold9999]

Been to Cuba - couldn't dive no rental gear to be had at the time for any price. Snorkling was spectacular. Not the same place even now - at the time you couldn't spend money - no restaurants, very few tours, a bar at the "all inclusive" hotel and a tiny kiosk with essentials. Nothing else, and this was Veradero beach.

Going to have to book another trip before they change the law before you guys overrun the place. It makes for a different ambiance with no american tourists. Frankly not better or worse just different. Seems someone else manages to take on the role of "ugly american" - when I was there it was the French Canadian and Germans that everyone was complaining about for being pushy and obnoxious. My point is that there is always someone in the crowd who thinks that the world revolves around them - nationality is irrelevant. In many places the majority of tourists are American so good chance the obnoxious one will be American.

It was interesting to be there when the Russians were supporting Cuba. It, as far as we could tell, was actually a system that worked for the majority of Cubans - education was free and so was medical care. By and large a much flatter system - not as many super rich folks and not so many in abject poverty in comparison to other 3rd world countries. Lots to criticize - one of our tour guides had a masters degree and was a tour guide because it paid better than anything else. No the "tour's were not set up so we didn't see the nasty side of life - went to a local baseball game, and then a local chicken BBQ out in a field - no other tourists for miles - this was a regular Sat afternoon event that was packed with locals.

Now that the Russians are gone and the economy is not heavily subsidised I gather it is not the same. With your nearest neighbour blocking the door to trade your economy is not ever going to work well. If they closed the American/Canadian border like the Cuban border our economy would go into the toilet in a real hurry - no surprise that the Cubans are in trouble.

Hope you guys figure out a way to get past this stupid blockade. Might have made sense 40 years ago - don't pretend to know all the details, however now it is just spite. Just my 2 cents.

 

[H2Andy]

It was interesting to be there when the Russians were supporting Cuba. It, as far as we could tell, was actually a system that worked for the majority of Cubans

the problem was that it was a completely artificial system that Cuba could not maintain by iteslf. it made Cuba into a Russian dependent.

and having so much cash coming in (about $6 billion per year by the 1980's) killed any incentinve that Cuba had to develop its own internal economy. instead, it became a junky addicted to Russian cash and oil.

when the Soviet Union collapsed, Cuba's social infrastucture collapsed too, and it's nowhere near what it used to be.

however, they've made deals with Venezuela for subsidized oil, with China for various economic packages, have revamped tourism (now their primary hard-currency earner),
and along with checks from Miami (second hard-currency earner) are turning things around.

i would say Cuba is at about 70% of where it was in 1989 in terms of economic potential.

compared to 1959, Cuba is probably closer to 45% to 50% of its economic potential, and a large chunk of what it does produce is limited by mismanagenent, waste, and theft (the government owns everything, so you have to steal from them to get it)

i grew up in Cuba from 1966 to 1980, and I did receive excellent medical care (much better than pretty much anywhere else in the third world, but not up to U.S. standards) and excellent education, better than the U.S. public education system (yes, folks... it's true).

however, the price for those two things was very high. very high indeed. that is why so many people have died trying to cross the Straights of Florida on a raft, and Cuba's emigration rate almost exceeds its birth rate.

 

[DawgDiver]

*deleted because i would rather not get in a multi-page political argument, i have too much to do today*

 

[H2Andy]

i'm just giving my view, doesn't make it right

 

[drbill]

The biggest problem with the embargo IMHO is the effect on the Cuban people rather than my not being able to dive there easily.

One of my dive buddies (who recently passed away from cancer, RIP) dove Cuba on a cultural exchange mission a few years ago. It is possible for US divers to go there already if they are on a US government sanctioned exchange like that.

 

[H2Andy]

bill, keep in mind that Cuba does business with pretty much the rest of the world, and is the 33rd largets purchaser of U.S. agricultural goods

if you want Coke or ice cream or a good wine in Cuba, you can get it... so long as you have hard currency. the party hacks and the generals live like kings.

the people are poor and cant afford any of that thanks to the Government policies of prohibitting private enterprise and forcing people to depend on the state for their subsistance

all the embargo does is shift were Cuba gets its goods, not what it can get. if the embargo were lifted tomorrow (and i think it should) most Cubans still wouldn't have access to anything that they don't have today

imho

 

[merxlin]

the problem was that it was a completely artificial system that Cuba could not maintain by iteslf. it made Cuba into a Russian dependent.

and having so much cash coming in (about $6 billion per year by the 1980's) killed any incentinve that Cuba had to develop its own internal economy. instead, it became a junky addicted to Russian cash and oil.

when the Soviet Union collapsed, Cuba's social infrastucture collapsed too, and it's nowhere near what it used to be.

however, they've made deals with Venezuela for subsidized oil, with China for various economic packages, have revamped tourism (now their primary hard-currency earner),
and along with checks from Miami (second hard-currency earner) are turning things around.

i would say Cuba is at about 70% of where it was in 1989 in terms of economic potential.

compared to 1959, Cuba is probably closer to 45% to 50% of its economic potential, and a large chunk of what it does produce is limited by mismanagenent, waste, and theft (the government owns everything, so you have to steal from them to get it)

i grew up in Cuba from 1966 to 1980, and I did receive excellent medical care (much better than pretty much anywhere else in the third world, but not up to U.S. standards) and excellent education, better than the U.S. public education system (yes, folks... it's true).

however, the price for those two things was very high. very high indeed. that is why so many people have died trying to cross the Straights of Florida on a raft, and Cuba's emigration rate almost exceeds its birth rate.

I have a very close friend that was born and raised in Cuba, leaving in the 80's. She is very intelligent, speaks several languages and is a joy to be around. From what she has told us I couldn't agree with you more H2Andy. Her memories are not fond ones, nor is her love of the Cuban Government. Her story of having to work her way out of the country is heartbreaking.

 

[Torontonian]

Since I was alive and cognizant during the Cuban Missile Crisis, I have to say even at the tender age of (censored) I questioned what right we had to stop the Russians from putting missiles in Cuba even if they were aimed at US. At the time we had missiles in Turkey aimed at the Russians. I never could figure out the rationalization.

A lot of things make a lot of sense. Just like all the recent efforts to ban other countries from having nuclear weapons. The US can have lots of them, but others are not allowed to. Doesn't mean it's good for anyone to have them.

But hey, before the Americans swamp Cuba, it is one of the few remaining cheap places for a one week all inclusive resort vacation.

Oh yeh, they use metric. You dive down to 30 meters, in 27 degree water. It's amazing that in so many ways the US is the most advanced country in the world, yet it is one of the most backward in its daily life. Still using miles, pounds, and how many degrees is it out there?

 

[H2Andy]

The US can have lots of them, but others are not allowed to. Doesn't mean it's good for anyone to have them.

the US is not the only country in the world with nuclear weapons

and the US is not the only country in the world that thinks North Korea and Iran having nuclear weapons is not a good thing

in fact, you'd be hard pressed to find a country that thinks that's a good idea