Goodbye ponies

[String]

EDIT: I have no experience of H-valves and can't even profess to understanding them, but wouldn't a H-valved single do the same?

H-valve single relies on you being VERY fast at doing shutdowns - especially if something happens just prior to the normal end of dive.

 

[String]

double post

 

[DwayneJ]

H-valve single relies on you being VERY fast at doing shutdowns - especially if something happens just prior to the normal end of dive.

Hi String - I'm assuming so -

Are both valves completely independent? Shutting off the first valve does not affect the second?

Thanks,
Dwayne

 

[String]

Correct. You can isolate first stages (IF you're fast enough)

 

[rescue15]

I didn't read the entire thread so forgive me if I repeat other's thoughts.

First, I don't believe there is such a thing as a "reliable buddy"
There is always a chance he will be gone when you need him the most. Always dive self sufficient.

Second, always dive as if everything will go wrong. Redundancy is the key to survival in an emergency. Always dive self sufficient.

Third, You never know if it will fail untill it fails. Even if you check your gear and service it every dive, the next time you use something it can fail. I used to work with a driver in my firehouse that never checked the lights and siren. He always said, it's a waste iof time - it just lets you know it is working now, not later...he was right. Always dive self sufficient.

Finally, Always dive self sufficient (do you see a trend here?)

Save diving,

Steve

 

[mrpat]

Yeh - it can happen-
I watched a very competant diver enter the tunnel of Devil's Throat in Cozumel and have a total blow out of the first stage which completely engulfed his head and much of the tunnel in bubbles. Several of us assisted him back out of the cavern while he shared air w/ the DM who took him up to the surface. I never found out exaclty what had happened to his reg but he'd not been streaming any bubbles before it blew. They reported his tank was emplty when they got to the surface. Scary!!

 

[BDSC]

I didn't read the entire thread so forgive me if I repeat other's thoughts.

First, I don't believe there is such a thing as a "reliable buddy"
There is always a chance he will be gone when you need him the most. Always dive self sufficient.

Second, always dive as if everything will go wrong. Redundancy is the key to survival in an emergency. Always dive self sufficient.

Third, You never know if it will fail untill it fails. Even if you check your gear and service it every dive, the next time you use something it can fail. I used to work with a driver in my firehouse that never checked the lights and siren. He always said, it's a waste iof time - it just lets you know it is working now, not later...he was right. Always dive self sufficient.

Finally, Always dive self sufficient (do you see a trend here?)

Save diving,

Steve

I read what you are saying here and if diving totally self sufficient makes you feel like your chance of survival is increased by doing so then by all means have at it. But most divers that I know and probably most divers don't buy into this way of thinking.

I've never been on a dive where I thought my buddy was not reliable. For me, it's knowing that my buddy is there if I need him/her that makes the diving more enjoyable.

You also say dive as if everything will go wrong and that even if you service your gear after every dive it can fail. Well, technically that correct. While it would be highly unlikely that your equipment would fail, it is possible.

So where then does it all end? How about your back-up pony bottle. Could it fail? Of course it could. So when you need it and it fails, and your buddy is not around, what do you do? Do you have a second pony bottle? A third? Remember, "always dive as if everything will go wrong".

The bottom line is everyone must do what feels right for them. I have a great respect for diving and for the dangers associated with the sport, but I hope I never get to the point where I am worried about what may or may not go wrong. People can play the "what if" game to death. So I'll continue to just gear up, hop in with my buddy, and enjoy the wonders of the deep. And should something go wrong, I know either I or my buddy and I have the right training to handle the situation.

I think the OP came to this same conclusion.

 

[DaleC]

I've never been on a dive where I thought my buddy was not reliable. For me, it's knowing that my buddy is there if I need him/her that makes the diving more enjoyable.

You are indeed lucky to have that experience.
On the other hand (aside from insta buddy problem) what happens when you take a newer diver out for his/her first few dives to introduce them to the pleasure of diving and to share your knowledge? Do you believe beginner divers are reliable enough too? I did a dive with a new diver recently that forgot what the ascend signal was for. I had to repeat it three times to make him realize I meant for "him" to ascend. He just thought I was telling him that I was going to ascend. He was a nice guy and I enjoyed the dive but he was definitely NOT my redundant air source. I wonder how instructors with new students feel about this type of situation?

I hope I never get to the point where I am worried about what may or may not go wrong. People can play the "what if" game to death.

By that line of reasoning you should also not dive with a secondary regulator. After all, the primary probably won't fail and your buddy has your back up if it does. Your B/U reg is really redundant redundancy (coupled with your buddies redundant redundancy) so why do we all (except those vintage divers) have them?

Having said that, I can't argue against your, or the OP's, choice. To each his/her own I say.

 

[DaleC]

I read what you are saying here and if diving totally self sufficient makes you feel like your chance of survival is increased by doing so then by all means have at it. But most divers that I know and probably most divers don't buy into this way of thinking.

Oops, I forgot this one.

I think only divers who haven't had the s__t hit it think that. After the s__t hits it for them they probably either quit diving outright or quickly convert to self sufficiency. The best gift you can give your buddy in an emergency is to be self sufficient yourself. If he/she is in trouble you are essentially flying solo while you/they work their way out of it.

 

[String]

I've never been on a dive where I thought my buddy was not reliable. For me, it's knowing that my buddy is there if I need him/her that makes the diving more enjoyable.

Different way of thinking. Although i dont mind diving with a buddy i find diving much more relaxed knowing i can get myself out of a situation without having to blindly rely on someone.

So where then does it all end? How about your back-up pony bottle. Could it fail? Of course it could. So when you need it and it fails, and your buddy is not around, what do you do? Do you have a second pony bottle? A third? Remember, "always dive as if everything will go wrong".

By adding an extra option you half the odds. How far you want to go is up to you. I'd rather not have to rely on one fallback that MIGHT be available when needed (ie a buddy) and instead rely on 2 fallbacks (redundant gas source and a buddy). That means 2 things have to go wrong for me to be in trouble.

HSE here feel the same way. Legally anyone teaching or diving for any commercial gain at all has to wear 1 x redundant gas source. Not 2 or 3, 1. The buddy does not legally count as redundancy.

Yes though its all down to personal preference and how much personal risk someone is willing to take - only the individual can make that call. I enjoy dives more and am far more relaxed without having to rely on anyone else underwater for my safety. Other people are quite happy to rely on a buddy and hope for the best when bad things happen. *USUALLY* thats enough.