Got Narced at Gilboa - and I thought that I would 'share' (Another Long post)

[MikeFerrara]

Popeye once bubbled...


Please explain what information from the original post leads you to believe this incident was caused by lack of experience.

Please give your opinion of the experience level of the diver (OW, AOW, ect) based on the information you read.

I've asked both these questions of Mike, and he chooses not to answer.

You've clearly stated your opinion, now let's see if you can clearly justify it.

Well...Windknot had been certified less than a year when this incedent happened and had 5 dives in his new drysuit. A number of things in the post indicates that he is likely a fairly new diver. A quick search of his posts confirmed that. What's your point?

 

[Popeye]

cstreu1026 once bubbled...
How about the fact that seems to be the first time to experience narcosis. To me that shows he probably had little experience diving to deeper depths.

Actually, no, it shows that it's the first time he got narced. That's all it said. Like Mike, you read a variety of information into the scenario to support your own viewpoint.

That's why I asked you to support you position from this post, and you can't.

The truth is I don't know the level of experience and I don't think you do either.

Now you're getting closer. I don't know this divers experience, yet, I'm not the one the commented on it. Like Mike, you did. I have no position about the experience level to support. You do.

From the information it can be assumed that either the diver has little experience diving period or has little experience diving deep...especially in those type of conditions.

Funny, if you'd actually read the thread, you'd find that the diver dives doubles, a long hose, and a drysuit. Hardly an open water diver. Yes, those are assumptions, but I didn't form my opinion on them.

Furthermore, regardless of how you and Mike side step my point, it's glaringly evident at this point. That point is, trimix training, and mixed gas diving do not protect you from narcosis, which Mike flatly states they do. Having a diver experience narc, and become familiar with it, could have assisted this diver in dealing with this problem.

Mike says this type of training is dangerous and unneccesary.

Obviously it's not.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Popey all I said about this diver is that he wasn't prepared for the dive. I believe the nature of the problem (thinking he is out of air when he isn't) shows that much. This dive was like his 5th dive in his new dry suit. Stop puting words in my mouth, He is a fairly new diver. At that depth I have trouble believing that the main issue was narcosis. Nobody is side stepping your point you don't have one unless your saying this diver should have received deep air training in prep for for an 80 ft cold water dive. Again to make it simple all I said that was regardless of the cause he wasn't prepared for the dive. The whole incedent may be a good case for some of those arbitrary limits you hate so much. You know like the recommendation that novice divers limit depth to 60 ft. It also may support my contention that the divers we're handing cards too are not well prepared in the basics.

BTW, see the reference to the Mystery sink (Hal Watts) incedent I added to the "Deep Air Survey"thread as well as the info I posted on narcosis studies and CO2 retention and it's effects on narcosis and oxtox.

 

[cstreu1026]

Popeye once bubbled...


Funny, if you'd actually read the thread, you'd find that the diver dives doubles, a long hose, and a drysuit. Hardly an open water diver. Yes, those are assumptions, but I didn't form my opinion on them.

Furthermore, regardless of how you and Mike side step my point, it's glaringly evident at this point. That point is, trimix training, and mixed gas diving do not protect you from narcosis, which Mike flatly states they do. Having a diver experience narc, and become familiar with it, could have assisted this diver in dealing with this problem.

Mike says this type of training is dangerous and unneccesary.

Obviously it's not.

Speaking of not reading the thread maybe you should go back and read over hte posts by the thread starter. There is no mention of him using doubles and it can only be assumed that he is using a long hose. So you had to read something into it too.

Now I have a question for you, if trimix training and diving mixed gases do not protect you from narcosis why did you spend the money for the training? You have said that is both expensive and unneccessary yet you have all the training and then some.

 

[wb416]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...

In fact a compressor dealer told mike he was the largest gas pumper in the world. I believe it since he just purchased a 140 cu ft /min compressor.

For the particular Brand of compressor he has (and had trouble with), the mfg said that he pumps more air than anyone else in the world they deal with. When they sold it to him, they said it would pump more air than he'd ever need. So much for standing behind your product.

However, they aren't the major player in the compressor market, Bauer is. Bauer probably has higher volume sites worldwide.

 

[MikeFerrara]

cwb once bubbled...


For the particular Brand of compressor he has (and had trouble with), the mfg said that he pumps more air than anyone else in the world they deal with. When they sold it to him, they said it would pump more air than he'd ever need. So much for standing behind your product.

However, they aren't the major player in the compressor market, Bauer is. Bauer probably has higher volume sites worldwide.

Have you heard about the new compressor. I can't even imagine a 140 cu ft/min compressor. He pumps more gas than anyplace I've ever seen including N. Florida.

 

[wb416]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


Have you heard about the new compressor. I can't even imagine a 140 cu ft/min compressor. He pumps more gas than anyplace I've ever seen including N. Florida.

I haven't seen it yet, but he has the compressor room "prepped" for it. It's waiting to be delivered, but I think he's awaiting warmer weather.

I thought Cave Excursions pumped allot of gas?

Right now he's focusing most of his efforts to get the new office ready. He had about 2/3's of the new tile laid by the end of last Saturday.

 

[MikeFerrara]

cwb once bubbled...



I thought Cave Excursions pumped allot of gas?

They do but I think Mike pumps more at least on the weekend during the "season" WAY more.

 

[Popeye]

cstreu1026 once bubbled...


Speaking of not reading the thread maybe you should go back and read over hte posts by the thread starter. There is no mention of him using doubles and it can only be assumed that he is using a long hose. So you had to read something into it too.

I was right about you. I made no point based on the assumptions, you did. Of course, you were just parroting Mike.

Sure there's a mention of him using doubles. See if you can find it. But like I said, the point -I- was making, was not based on these assumptions, like yours, so, unlike you, I have nothing here to explain.

Now I have a question for you, if trimix training and diving mixed gases do not protect you from narcosis why did you spend the money for the training? You have said that is both expensive and unneccessary yet you have all the training and then some.

Almost nothing in the above paragraph is true, attesting one again to your powers of perception and reading comprehension. No wonder you get along with Mike so well.

None of it, except the training and then some.

You're a black hole.

 

[cstreu1026]

Popeye once bubbled...


I was right about you. I made no point based on the assumptions, you did. Of course, you were just parroting Mike.

Sure there's a mention of him using doubles. See if you can find it. But like I said, the point -I- was making, was not based on these assumptions, like yours, so, unlike you, I have nothing here to explain.




Almost nothing in the above paragraph is true, attesting one again to your powers of perception and reading comprehension. No wonder you get along with Mike so well.

None of it, except the training and then some.

You're a black hole.

Again with name calling? How old are we now. I think if one goes and looks at the posts you have made in the last few days, not just the ones in the thread it can be determined that you are not big on trimix and think it basically has no benefits despite many many supports in both recreational and commercial divnig. So basically you are stating all the experts are wrong and that you opinion, based on your experieces not scientific evidence, is corret. Here are your exact words, now tell me you not saying this and maybe you will regain some of my respect.

Popeye once bubbled...

Furthermore, regardless of how you and Mike side step my point, it's glaringly evident at this point. That point is, trimix training, and mixed gas diving do not protect you from narcosis, which Mike flatly states they do.