Got narced hard today!!

[detroit diver]

WreckWriter once bubbled...


A lot of people still dive deep air, particularly in the NE. I'm not advocating it, I don't do it any longer myself, but I know its still done regularly.

WW

Agreed, but as this was (one of) his first postings.....

 

[MikeFerrara]

The studies I have read suggest that you do become used to the feeling therefore perceive less narcosis. They also suggest that there is some performance improvement on certain types of tasks. for instance, a diver can learn to move slower to improve accuracy or to trade accuracy for speed. Kind of like learning to open your front door on a drunk Friday night. The studies I am aware of also suggest that the one thing you can't learn to do while narced is think. Apparantly getting used to narcosis doesn't improve performance in solving new problems ot those that require reasoning.

I think divers feel they are doing ok on deep dives because they haven't had to do anything other than breath.

 

[WreckWriter]

back when I was doing deep air I always believed that narcosis was adaptable but lately I've seen so many studies that say differently that I've come to the conclusion that it was just my perceptions that adapted. I felt like I was doing better. I dunno, its a tough subject because it very much seems to me that the effects lessened after several dives to a particular depth.

WW

 

[Uncle Pug]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...
you can't learn to do while narced is think.

That explains why they perceive no difference... there isn't one.

 

[King Kong Matt]

I think people still do dive a lot of air in the NE. I know there are a couple different camps up here with some very different thoughts on this issue.

A lot of shops and a lot of divers subscrube to the NJ/NY wreck diving mentality - deep air is ok b/c you learn to handle it, etc.

The instructors at my shop are all GUE trained at some level or another. They are of the "air is for tires" mentality and make sure that all of their students dive gas as soon as possible.

I'm planning to take TriOx w/ Bob Sherwood in Lake Ontario this summer and I can't wait...personally, I can't stand the feeling of narcosis and don't want to be breathing ANYTHING that impairs my judgment in ANY way. For me, TriOx will make those 90-130 foot dives SO much more relaxing and enjoyable.

Again, my .02 - those are Taxachusetts prices so your mileage is bound to vary.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

That explains why they perceive no difference... there isn't one.

I wonder if any of the published studies have taken this into account. Maybe Popey or someone will come along and explain the value of deep air training.

 

[Uncle Pug]

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MikeFerrara once bubbled...
you can't learn to do while narced is think.
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Uncle Pug responded...

That explains why they perceive no difference... there isn't one.

Perhaps I was too circumspect.

If you can't learn to think at 1 ATA... increasing your PN2 will probably not change that.

 

[WreckWriter]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...
Perhaps I was too circumspect.

Pug, you are never too circumspect

WW

 

[MHK]

MikeFerrara once bubbled...


I wonder if any of the published studies have taken this into account. Maybe Popey or someone will come along and explain the value of deep air training.

Mike,

I was at Duke University this past weekend doing a study for the US Navy and DAN. During a break from our study Gene Hobbs took me up to his lab and showed me a video from a study that was done a few years ago. In the chamber they had 2 guys from DAN [ Gene and Brian] and they had two other guys. The idea was that the four would do a series of tests at the surface and then do the same tests at 165' on air. Unfortunately they don't have releases from the other two so they can't release the video publicly, but the video was an incredible demonstration of narcosis.

Part of the test was that they would pick up small beads with tweezers and then put those beads into a tube in a 1 minute time frame. At the surface they did 24 and 22 respectively. At depth Gene did 22 slighty less whereas the other team did 6. But what was so surprising about this video was that one of the other team members was laughing uncontrollably, and Gene who did 22 at depth thought that he had *adapted* to narcosis because he only did 2 beads less then he did at the surface.. However what he realized after reviewing the video tape was that he had such tunnel vision, and was so focused on getting the beads into the tube that he had no idea that his buddy was laughing uncontrollably to the point that he couldn't even stand up..

The obvious point was that he thought he was adapting but any sense of division of attention, or multi tasking was lost upon him at depth. The other team was a complete disaster and upon reviewing the video tape didn't even remember half of the stuff that they were doing at depth.. So for those that think they can *adapt* to narcosis I say first off that narcosis is a small part of the issue and it can't be solved. C02 is much more of a concern breathing air at depth but it get's lost in the debate..

Hope that helps..

Later

 

[MikeFerrara]

I hope everyone realizes that I was being sarcastic about the value of "deep" air training and poking light fun at the idea of "adaptation".