Got refused boat dives due to 12 month break

[redacted]

Hertz or Avis do not have the same structure as a Diving Center- perhaps if Hertz required that one of their employees were in the same car that a licensed driver was driving around in a foreign country on vacation, there would also be a change in their policy? How long could a dive center last if there was a 'sign on the dotted line and it's yours' policy for every diver that walked through their doors? Apples to oranges.

So, you claim the dive op does this for their employee's safety!!! Which is why I included car dealers. When is the last time you did a test drive at a car dealer? Very few will let you go without the salesman in the back seat. And they don't even look at driver's licenses.

 

[paulw]

When someone I don't know asks me to take them diving, I always want our first dive together to be simple ... regardless of their experience or training level. After all ... I don't know this person, and they could have a higher opinion of their skills than is warranted ... not like that ever happens ... :shocked2:

I don't mind that everyone be asked to do a checkout dive. I only ask that it not cost me an inordinate amount of the diving time I've paid for ... and that it be a reasonable evaluation of someone's fitness to go on the planned dive(s). For example, asking someone to kneel on the bottom, clear a mask and recover a regulator may satisfy the mechanics of a checkout dive ... but it completely misses the intent. The checkout dive I did in the Maldives is far more reasonable ... take the divers to an easy site, evaluate how properly they gear up and enter the water, watch how they dive, and decide their fitness accordingly. And skip the marketing crap that so often accompanies this exercise ... if I want to buy something besides the diving, I'll let you know ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I couldn't agree more, well said!

Paul

 

[boulderjohn]

So, you claim the dive op does this for their employee's safety!!! Which is why I included car dealers. When is the last time you did a test drive at a car dealer? Very few will let you go without the salesman in the back seat. And they don't even look at driver's licenses.

There are several reasons for that, and it is likely that a fear that the driver lacks the skill to do a test drive is probably not one of them.

The analogy to rental car driving is not really valid because it would be extremely unusual for someone who is renting a car to have gone a year or more without driving. A typical car renter has driven a car thousands of times, even if that renter is still in his or her 20s. In contrast, it is all too common for a diver on vacation to have less than a dozen life time dives, and none in the last two years. It is borderline impossible for a person renting a car to have so little driving experience.

 

[Sheri SGR]

Check ahead with the local dive operator you will be using. You can do a local discover diving and do a dive before you go if time permits (and local) or set up something with the shop in Hawaii for a refresher if they require it.

 

[TMHeimer]

Check ahead with the local dive operator you will be using. You can do a local discover diving and do a dive before you go if time permits (and local) or set up something with the shop in Hawaii for a refresher if they require it.

Yes, my point about checking ahead-- quite a few posts ago. Consider though: We took 2 cruises years ago (before I was a diver). I do recall contacting the cruise line (people in charge of booking, I presume). They didn't seem to have a lot of detail on any of their excursions off the ship. If it is not possible to contact the folks actually in charge of diving it may be best to book a different cruise (or pay your money and take your chances). You'd THINK details on off-ship excursions would be easily available considering the cost of the cruise. You'd think that the cruise company would figure diving may be a big part of one's decision to do a cruise. You'd think that being told "you can't dive" at all upon arriving at the ship would not happen without any info. having been sent, regardless of how long you have not dived. Of course as you said, a DSD, Scuba Review or even a brush up dive somewhere would be the best idea and solve the problem.

 

[Phil_C]

I dive in two quite different sets of circumstances - in the UK as part of a sub acqua club where we plan, organise and lead all our own dives. We have our own RHIB but also hire day boats for the club. We do boat dves all round the UK coast, for example last weekend we were off the south coast near the Isle of Wight, in two weeks time we will be 300 miles north off the east coast of Scotland. When we have club dives whether from the RHIB or hard boat we plan, lead and manage our own dives, we never have a local DM.

I also dive each month when at work in the Mediteranean where I use a local dive centre or shop. I have a regular dive partner who works with me and the LDS we normally use know us now so they are happy to let us dive alone as a buddy pair, either from the shore or from their boats, but all other divers are accompanied by a DM from the centre.

We have often gone along with the groups and just done our own thing, but we have frequently looked on in disgust as so called qualified divers who have obviously not dived in a long time, but think they are better than they are, have had significant issues under the water. Poor bouyancy, poor finning and so on, I have watched one actually undo his weight belt whilst trying to adjust his BCD at depth (about 100 foot). That was a tragedy only just averted because his buddy realised what he had done and managed to grab it and him before he could let go of it and after a lot of effort between them to refasten it.

My point is that when kitting up these people are invariably full of what they have done, and what cards they have, and so on, but despite this they are not diving regularly and are very rusty. I think it is entirely reasonable to expect either an easy first dive as a shakedown, or a sensible refresher before diving with someone you don't know. Otherwise at best you are risking a ruined dive for the other people because too much time and effort is taken over sorting out a rusty diver, and at worst you have a tragedy on your hands.

I wouldn't consider diving a 30m (100 ft) dive site with someone I hadn't dived with before unless they came with a personal recommendation from someone I knew and trusted. That is how our club works it doesn't matter what qualifications you have, you get checked out by the dving officer before you can join club dives and if you are not current you have to have a shakedown dive first.

I know I would feel slighted if someone said to me they didn't want to accept my qualifications at face value - it happened to me (and I did feel pissed) when I joined my club last year, but overall I would rather know that everyone was in the same boat - so to speak- and that their skills had been verified and were current.

This must be much harder for guides and LDS centres especially those catering for 'tourist' divers but as I see it you have two options. Either keep your dives so simple you are unlikely to have a problem, or require a verified recent dive history or refresher/check out before going deeper or beyond absolute basic.

I know that as a regular (at least at the moment) diver this will not catch me too often, but if I had to do a checkout dive I would happily do so, but I think it is important to plan your diving - and that planning starts long before you arrive on holiday or at the LDS. If you need a refresher schedule it in early before you go.

---------- Post added May 4th, 2012 at 08:12 PM ----------

I have just come across a link to a report about some DAN research on another thread - What more eloquent arguement could you want than this - a quote from Dan Orr, President of the Divers Alert Network on their analysis of deaths from over a 1,000 diving incidents they analysed;

"Of the total number of dive fatalities analysed, 88 per cent were on the first dive of their vacation or trip. "

I think that says it all about the need for refreshers and check out dives.

P

 

[carolineboyle90]

Good info!
Great post!




Thank you, for sharing information in this forum..

 

[KevinG58]

There are several reasons for that, and it is likely that a fear that the driver lacks the skill to do a test drive is probably not one of them.

The analogy to rental car driving is not really valid because it would be extremely unusual for someone who is renting a car to have gone a year or more without driving. A typical car renter has driven a car thousands of times, even if that renter is still in his or her 20s. In contrast, it is all too common for a diver on vacation to have less than a dozen life time dives, and none in the last two years. It is borderline impossible for a person renting a car to have so little driving experience.

It is somewhat apples to oranges but what if all their experience was driving on the "wrong" side of the road.

 

[supergaijin]

I posted this on another thread that got morphed in to debating the 'check dive'.

a) Divers often do not keep up to date logbooks. A logbook telling me that they saw a pink fish in Thailand or a yellow one in Sharm el Sheikh tells me nothing about a diver's ability to cope with conditions.

b) Certificates alone mean nothing- an Advanced OW cert does not make one an advanced diver. I regularly see Rescue divers who couldn't rescue themselves out of a paper bag.

c) experience counts but experience 'back in the day' means nothing.

When divers regularly come in to our shop without 'proof' of recent diving experience, they are essentially asking me to 'trust them'. Where is there a difference between this and doing 'trust me' dives with an instabuddy?

I operate a professional and safe diving operation. I see many many divers who can talk the talk but can't walk the walk- I see them every week. I need to know that they are safe divers before I give them access to the potential dangers of the Indian Ocean, because if there is an incident, the emotional and financial repercussions will fall directly to me and my partner.

How can I know that a diver is a safe and conscientious divers? There is no fail-safe way but with a check dive I can view them and scrutinize them (in a professional capacity) in a controlled environment and make a professional judgement as to their ability to conduct safe dives. If I (as a professional) believe that they are not ready to handle strong drift dives, I have the option to be prudent and deny access to certain sites, because as a professional I have more information and local experience to weigh the potential dangers vs the perceived ability of a guest on vacation.

I insist on a check dive because I do not trust divers. If divers can show me proof that they have the skills and experience to dive in any condition that the Indian Ocean can throw at them, then I am willing to take them without demonstrating their skills. In my day to day experience, 99% of divers cannot prove it and so I will continue to insist on check dives before I allow them access to certain sites.

 

[vladimir]

I dive with....one guy in the 60,000+ club.

So, 4 dives a day, every day, for 41 years? Three dives a day, every day, for 55 years? Jacques "Chamberlain" Cousteau?

If divers can show me proof that they have the skills and experience to dive in any condition that the Indian Ocean can throw at them, then I am willing to take them without demonstrating their skills. In my day to day experience, 99% of divers cannot prove it and so I will continue to insist on check dives before I allow them access to certain sites.

Anything the Indian Ocean can throw at me? Yeah, that's a pretty high bar; I guess I'm in the 99%. My tsunami diving skills are pretty rusty, for example.