Great White Shark Cage Dives, Guadalupe, Mexico Oct 8-13th, 2007

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TraceMalin:
One of the reasons that I want to go on this trip as soon as possible is out of concern that such ecotourism may become more difficult in the future. Every now and then activists or legislative bodies get the urge to attempt to ban activities such as wreck diving or shark encounters and since this is my dream trip, I want to do it before the world bends to the will of a few.
How is chumming for sharks considered eco-tourism? You have a funny sense of the word "eco".

Banning wreck diving on certain wrecks has nothing to do with "eco". It's about keeping historical artifacts intact. Likewise, I've never heard of banning shark encounters (how are you going to do that? Put up a "no sharks" sign?), but banning shark feeding which has been demonstrated to alter sharks' natural behavior and potentially increase their danger to humans.

Too bad you missed out on Guadalupe before it was "discovered" by those bent on making money off taking tourists to see the great white. Back then, it was a popular free diving spot, where you might get a chance to see one of the greats in the open, no cage, no hookah, no chum. That was eco-tourism.
 
Mossman:
How is chumming for sharks considered eco-tourism? You have a funny sense of the word "eco".

Banning wreck diving on certain wrecks has nothing to do with "eco". It's about keeping historical artifacts intact. Likewise, I've never heard of banning shark encounters (how are you going to do that? Put up a "no sharks" sign?), but banning shark feeding which has been demonstrated to alter sharks' natural behavior and potentially increase their danger to humans.

Too bad you missed out on Guadalupe before it was "discovered" by those bent on making money off taking tourists to see the great white. Back then, it was a popular free diving spot, where you might get a chance to see one of the greats in the open, no cage, no hookah, no chum. That was eco-tourism.

I guess this flame serves me right for not spending more time qualifying the point that I was trying to make in this post. Perhaps I used "ecotourism" incorrectly? My post wasn't about ecotourism, but rather about getting a chance to experience great white sharks in real life before such opportunities end. I meant ecotourism as tourism focusing one one aspect of an ecosystem. In this case an apex predator. If that was incorrect -- my bad. I'm 38, have a B.A. in English and a girlfriend. All that means I'm too old, too apathetic after having paid my dues regarding the use of the English language, and way too corrected and chastised over minor details on a daily basis so give me a break!

I mentioned wrecks as an example of an aspect of diving that has been under attack from governments ever since I can remember and government interest in divers' interaction with marine species is often making headlines.

The fact that you mention that it's too bad Guadaloupe was "discovered" demonstrates that the world is becoming "smaller" in that it is possible for more and more people to journey to places that was far more difficult or impossible for the average person to visit in the past. Such pressure on the environment and on ecosystems won't go unnoticed by activists looking for attention, the media looking for viewers, and politicians looking for votes.

I grew up with diving being the center of my life and from the time I was a kid, I had wanted to see a great white shark for over 20 years. While we have great whites in New Jersey, the often limited visibility would make seeing one underwater less likely. So, I'd gladly be one of the "tourists" to see their beauty in real life and not just on HD TV.

Thus far, I've had hundreds of unexpected encounters with various species of sharks, but never a tiger or a great white. Bull sharks, oceanic white tips, a scalloped hammerhead, reef sharks, and of course sand tigers are what I've found along the east coast and caribbean.

You're fortunate if you've seen them without a cage and without disrupting their natural cycle. An unknown marine animal (likely a species of shark) owes me $160.00 for removing one of the skegs, the skeg box and breaking the glass of my favorite surfboard as I was lying it and about to duck into a wave. If I disrupt their cycle for a couple of days, I'll call the debt paid. The waves were really good that day!
 
TraceMalin:
I meant ecotourism as tourism focusing one one aspect of an ecosystem. In this case an apex predator. If that was incorrect -- my bad. I'm 38, have a B.A. in English and a girlfriend. All that means I'm too old, too apathetic after having paid my dues regarding the use of the English language, and way too corrected and chastised over minor details on a daily basis so give me a break!
You're not getting a break from me. I'm far older than you, having been 39 for almost a month now, yet with all my arthritis, senility, and loss of virility (and teeth), I'm still not thin-skinned enough yet to call that a flame.

I believe the "eco" in eco-tourism, as it's used by most of us English speakers, refers more to the green meaning of eco. Wikipedia defines it as ecologically and socially conscious tourism.

Personally I prefer ego-tourism, which is semi-conscious tourism brought on by excessive sampling of native beverages combined with loud berating of the locals if they don't understand English.

I mentioned wrecks as an example of an aspect of diving that has been under attack from governments ever since I can remember and government interest in divers' interaction with marine species is often making headlines.
I don't think government has been too intrusive in wreck diving, at least not in the U.S. The Canucks have a different complaint, but our government actually helps wreck divers by donating boats like the Spiegel Grove and the Oriskany. Governments have long been supporters of wreck diving. Truk Lagoon, for instance, was created entirely by the U.S. government as a wreck diving mecca.

The fact that you mention that it's too bad Guadaloupe was "discovered" demonstrates that the world is becoming "smaller" in that it is possible for more and more people to journey to places that was far more difficult or impossible for the average person to visit in the past. Such pressure on the environment and on ecosystems won't go unnoticed by activists looking for attention, the media looking for viewers, and politicians looking for votes.
I might as well nitpick that too. Guadaloupe is an island in the Caribbean with reportedly mediocre diving. Guadalupe is an island off the Pacific coast of Mexico known for fur seals and great whites.

What I mean by 'discovered' is that less than 10 years ago, the only boat that made it down there for diving was the Horizon. I did a trip down there in 2000, but we went to the San Benito Islands instead since the draw was "undiscovered diving" not white sharks. Meanwhile, divers at Guadalupe were coming to the realization that white sharks seemed to frequent that island. Within a few years, there were several boats plying the waters, some even flying the divers close in to avoid the long boat trips that scared off most people. More boats mean more people, more chumming, more sharks, more habituation to humans, alteration of natural behavior, and ???

That's hardly eco-tourism.
I grew up with diving being the center of my life and from the time I was a kid, I had wanted to see a great white shark for over 20 years. While we have great whites in New Jersey, the often limited visibility would make seeing one underwater less likely. So, I'd gladly be one of the "tourists" to see their beauty in real life and not just on HD TV.
So wait until they capture another one in an aquarium and stand in line. The ones they have at Guadalupe are tame by now, shadows of their former selves. That's no more adventure than those guys who keep animals in cages and "hunt" by shooting them as soon as the cage is opened.
Thus far, I've had hundreds of unexpected encounters with various species of sharks, but never a tiger or a great white. Bull sharks, oceanic white tips, a scalloped hammerhead, reef sharks, and of course sand tigers are what I've found along the east coast and caribbean.
I've never seen a bull yet. Gotta go to Costa Rica for that, or get lucky sometime in Florida I suppose. I'm diving at the Maui Ocean Center in April, and hopefully they'll have a tiger shark in stock. I've seen my great white in the wild, and I've made the long trip down the Pacific Coast to the Guadalupe area, so making the trip again to sit in a cage and watch sharks I've already seen before being drawn in by chum sounds like a bore
You're fortunate if you've seen them without a cage and without disrupting their natural cycle. An unknown marine animal (likely a species of shark) owes me $160.00 for removing one of the skegs, the skeg box and breaking the glass of my favorite surfboard as I was lying it and about to duck into a wave. If I disrupt their cycle for a couple of days, I'll call the debt paid. The waves were really good that day!
I'm fortunately that the one I saw didn't eat me, since I was holding a ring of bloody fish for my spearo buddies somewhere off Santa Barbara Island. They saw it first as it cruised right behind me; my only glimpse was of a big shape at the fringes of the murky visibility. Apparently it thought my big head would have been too big a mouthful and left me alone.

I'm still waiting for my revenge against a particularly vicious horn shark, though.
 
Mossman you are braver than I....

I can assure you that I would NEVER want to see a Great White in the wild without a cage.

I have done a dozen or more chummed dives in the Caribbean for assorted white tips, grey tips etc.

I have dove with hundreds of Atlantic Sand Tiger sharks all in the wild.

I have encountered a handful of bulls, hammerheads, oceanics, makos, but never a great white nor a tiger shark.

The ONLY way I'd like to see a great white is in the safety of a cage.

But wow...what a sight they will be when I finally do...:D
 
If you were at BTS this weekend you had a chance to win $100 off this trip! I hope you were one of the many lucky ones to do so! :D
 
So exactly what do you think Eco-Tourism is? Diving in an unspoiled region? Or someplace where tourists are not?

And is this the only element of eco-tourism?
 
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Oh my...I think one of my favorite things about diving is that it is very difficult to argue with a regulator in your mouth....
I just want to see Great Whites and that's why I'm going!!!
 
firenicejade:
Oh my...I think one of my favorite things about diving is that it is very difficult to argue with a regulator in your mouth....
I just want to see Great Whites and that's why I'm going!!!


Suhweet!!!! Cool to have you joining us! Anyone else????
 
Wreck Wench:
Suhweet!!!! Cool to have you joining us! Anyone else????

I think all the guys are too :chicken: !

Or maybe they are just afraid of being locked in a cage with us chicks......

Don't worry, guys, as I already pointed out it's really hard for us to argue with regulators in our mouths.:wink:
 

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