GUE and Sidemount position ?

[DevonDiver]

No, wrong again.
RD hasn't been proven dangerous by the report you referenced, the Z-system isn't a death trap, UTD isn't brand specific. You can show up with any rig, any regs, any drysuit, any fins and any mask. All you need for a UTD sidemount class is a damn manifold.

Saying the same incorrect points over and over and over and over again doesn't make them any more correct.

As I said.... without exception, UTD folks are impervious and resistant to any negative feedback on their systems, equipment or structures.

Have to defend UTD.... because admitting get you were sold/taught/believe in something going flawed is more than the sensitive ego can handle:

What staggers me, is that there really is a loss of reality-check; to where UTD acolytes absolutely cannot not conceive how apart and tangent they are from the rest of the sidemount/cave/tech community.

 

[Dan_P]

I've offered to have a conversation devoid of claims that I've shown incorrect. I've said I'd be more than happy to have a talk on pro's and con's, on a reasonable premise that we leave out the slantering, falsehoods and mud slinging.

Your response:

without exception, UTD folks are impervious and resistant to any negative feedback on their systems, equipment or structures

admitting get you were sold/taught/believe in something going flawed is more than the sensitive ego can handle

UTD acolytes absolutely cannot not conceive how apart and tangent they are from the rest of the sidemount/cave/tech community

Rather than comment on why I think you're incorrect in the above, I'll rather say that across all this and claims that large and by can be proven downright wrong, you'll understand if anyone would be inclined to taking what you say about the Z-system with a monumental pinch of salt, surely.

 

[DevonDiver]

As I said...

 

[Dan_P]

Misrepresentation of scientific study findings, mud slinging and memes.
So much for a reasonable discussion.

 

[Darghu]

Please. I have found both threads about Sidemount/GUE + DIR/Sidemount or UTD training vs.. (OK my bad I failed to search correctly)

I wanted morr Infos about GUE future possible Sidemount course, few years ago I have read that a team is working on it. Now they have made a lot of changes in Standards v8 maybe this will come in few months(?) years (?) in any case if I got opportunity to try out Sidemount in recreational diving well I'm open.

There are not many GUE divers in my country but I heard more better things than UTD (sorry Dan_P) I spoke to few instructors here and of course they know UTD but never saw / heard of divers. They will recommand IANTD, Sdi Tdi, Raid and GUE Fundies.

 

[bamafan]

Does the Z system not come with bungees?

 

[DevonDiver]

Does the Z system not come with bungees?

Getting droopy... lol

 

[DevonDiver]

Misrepresentation of scientific study findings, mud slinging and memes.
So much for a reasonable discussion.

It's a seemingly never-ending chain of embarrassments for UTD.

I doubt Simon Mitchell was 'mud slinging' when he posted his findings on UTD RD. The results were nonetheless absolutely damning.

The z-manifold is a joke. It's the 'village idiot' of the sidemount community.

Defend it all you want... nobody else is gonna respect it... or buy it....or use it.. and you just become that guy who defends the joke.

There's no reasonable discussion with a zealot who can't face reality. My intentions aren't to debate the z-manifold with you. It's a joke... it's not debate material. And UTD RD already had its grave dug in its primary thread.

Nah... I'm just trying to see if it's possible for a zealot to wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Dan_P]

Does the Z system not come with bungees?

Indeed it does.
They can be taken off if any diver should choose to do so, which seems to be the case in the video in your post. Personally, I like using them.

I doubt Simon Mitchell was 'mud slinging' when he posted his findings on UTD RD.

I believe he's spent more time speaking on the subject of deep stops in general than he has UTD, by quite a margin.

Certainly, he isn't slinging mud.
To my knowledge, he correctly references scientific studies and their conclusions, while fairly accounting for their limitations. I'm fairly sure he's actually read the reports he references, too.
His contributions and participations in conversations come across both apt and respectful.

In all the above regards, he would prove a formidable inspiration to yourself.

I suspect you might find further inspiration in his works on gas density and its potential for hypercapnia.

Now if you don't mind, I'm convinced you and I have reached a natural conclusion to our conversation, I honestly and profoundly hope you agree.

 

[tbone1004]

@Dan_P dangerous it may not be, but no different than anyone else trying to defend RD by saying that the study was inconclusive in order to avoid the following. Quoted verbatim by @Dr Simon Mitchell

The ratio decompression profile puts greater emphasis on deep stops in comparison to the GF profile, and the results constitute further evidence that the "love affair" we had with deep stops in the early 2000s has resulted in over-emphasis of the strategy by some algorithms. For clarity, and to avoid misinterpretation, the study does not establish GF 30:85 as optimal decompression. It simply indicates an advantage for that algorithm over one which places more emphasis on deep stops.


Sure we can't say it is dangerous, that said, it does say that it is statistically "less safe" than Buhlmann GF30/85. It doesn't mean that GF30/85 is safe, just less "unsafe" than UTD's Ratio Deco.

you can't deny that. why not? the ratio deco which is designed to inhibit bubble growth put grade 3/4 bubbles in almost twice as many divers as GF did.

Furthermore, the study does state this as their conclusion which says that RD put the divers more at risk of vascular damage.

"The ratio deco strategy did not confer any benefit in terms of bubbles but showed the disadvantage of increased decompression-associated secretion of inflammatory chemokines involved in the development of vascular damage.



HOW HOW HOW HOW can you continue to say that it is safe or smart to dive RD?