"Guided" 200' dive with a single AL80?

[Skull]

Decompression obligations put a "ceiling" on a dive, in other words, you can't just go to the surface (without risking injury or even death from DCS)

And they meet those obligations ..on a single tank!

But common we are not talking about overhead enviroments here in the spirit of the conversation ...but if you need to be right I will give up ...I submit to your authority in all ways hence forth ... lets go build the gallows and hang the bum ...come on everyone grab your hammer and nails, saws and lumber we got a dirty rascal to hang ...maybe after we run him out of business we can brandish him with a scarlett letter so all in the future will know he is the anti-christ of the diving community!! Sell his offspring to the white slave market in Mexico and then all sit back with our feet up and thumbs in our suspenders and congratulate each other on a job well down ...

Hoohray!!!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Finally some sense.

And the only people who should feel guilty about my post regarding drunk drivers are the lowlifes who do it and think that because it was only a couple and that they are not really "that drunk". The true boozers could care less. It's the ones who think they have it covered that scare me. they are the ones that kill people. As for speeding in a slow zone, I have a disabled wife. I'm not willing to take a chance with her in the car. Have I ever gone over the speed limit? Yes. But drove drunk? Never. I don't even drink. I used to but too many times I broke out from it. I broke out in stupid as many who drink do at times. Thing is I realized it and said it's not worth it. Driving drunk and going 5 or ten over the limit when you are the only car on the road or are merely moving with the flow of traffic are two different things. It's why I also will call 911 when I see some bozo drinking a beer while they drive or stagger out of a bar and get in their car.

 

[Scubakevdm]

And they meet those obligations ..on a single tank!

But common we are not talking about overhead enviroments here in the spirit of the conversation ...but if you need to be right I will give up ...I submit to your authority in all ways hence forth ... lets go build the gallows and hang the bum ...come on everyone grab your hammer and nails, saws and lumber we got a dirty rascal to hang ...maybe after we run him out of business we can brandish him with a scarlett letter so all in the future will know he is the anti-christ of the diving community!! Sell his offspring to the white slave market in Mexico and then all sit back with our feet up and thumbs in our suspenders and congratulate each other on a job well down ...

Hoohray!!!

I think that actually, everyone that has deco training is talking about this dive being done in an overhead environment. I know it seems like everyone is blasting the poor guy, but really... if you had the training I'm sure you would see things differently. That single little caviat, that you cannot go directly to the surface to resolve an emergency adds a whole new dimension. One of the divers did not meet those obligations on her own tank, and nothing went wrong. There are about 1000 "what if's" that could have resulted very easily in a death. There are many that feel that that last 1000 psi she breathed up wasn't hers to breathe, it's reserved for a buddy.

 

[Steve R]

Can't get trimix in Cozumel? Really?? Is it illegal?

lol. I guess you've been informed already that Skull is OTL.

You can get it in Coz, and it's no more expensive or hard to get than it is right in my little town way up here in yonder-country.

I wouldn't waste it on a 200ft 15 min bounce dive...............but then again I guess I wouldn't do a 200ft bounce dive

 

[DA Aquamaster]

DA don't discount the guys experience ...I will give him the benefit of the doubt that he routinely bounces on his reef ... I doubt that was his first time ...besides where was the task loading? I for one am not going to rat him out and destroy his livelyhood just because he and a few of his buddies (local professionals) pushed their limits ...

As far as the incompetence of shared air ascent ...isn't that why you guys teach shared air ascents because of miss calculations in gas usuage, equipment failure etc ...the same thing could have happened at 100'...

I am not one of the "rat him out" crowd, I'd just like him to get some training and do it...properly...before something bad happens.

The absence of task loading is a lucky break not a justification. The point is that they were on the edge and with a single tank diver and poor management of the redundant doubles in use, they were on the edge and one equipment failure would have meant someone got bent or worse.

Diving is like flying where the fancy pilot stuff is not needed until you encounter a problem. And the demand for skill and training goes up exponentially when you end up with multiple failures or failures with complex and dynamic consequences.

No one who knows enough about what they are doing (flying or diving) to fully understand the risks willingly starts out with a problem or problems (in this case, little planning, inadequate gas reserves and improper management of the limited redundant resources available) as it reduces your options and the resources you have to deal with a problem if and when it occurs.

The most dangerous aspect of it is that poor planning, improper configuration and inadequate resouces CAN work fine as long as every thing goes well. This leads to a sense of complacency because you have been there and done that many times before. It then bites you hard when things hit the fan and something goes wrong, leaving you hanging with no good way out. This is exactly why I am discounting the instructor's experience. Experience is great but it needs to be by balanced by suitable training and a healthy awareness of your limitations. The last two factors are seriously lacking.

In short I feel that technical divers should strive to be like superior pilots who use their superior judgment to avoid situation that require their superior piloting skills.

 

[xiSkiGuy]

I think that actually, everyone that has deco training is talking about this dive being done in an overhead environment. I know it seems like everyone is blasting the poor guy, but really... if you had the training I'm sure you would see things differently. That single little caviat, that you cannot go directly to the surface to resolve an emergency adds a whole new dimension.

Exactly.

lol. I guess you've been informed already that Skull is OTL.

Would that be:

• Oradea Transport Local
• Over-the-line
• Over Time Limit
• Output TransformerLess, referring to vacuum tube amplifier topology
• Outside the Lines
• On The Level - Statement said in truth and confidence
• Out to Lunch
• OTL, the file format of Vim Outliner
• In alternate history fiction, "OTL" stands for "Our Timeline" or "Original Timeline."
• Oracle Template Library
• Oracle Time and Labor
• A type of posture emoticon, denoting failure. (See orz.)
• Off-Topic Lounge, generally a forum in which members discuss things unrealated to the general topic of the site as a whole.
• Operational Transformation Leadership (United Technologies)
• Other than love
• Overtime loss (ice hockey)
• Online Teaching and Learning

???

Personally, I'm leaning towards "overtime loss", just because Steve is in Canada. . . .

 

[Mike Edmonston]

OK,

I got to page 10 of this thread and couldn't take anymore. If this has already been adressed, then I apologize, But....

From my observations of this guy's answers and his attitude it seems to me that:

1. He was on an 80
2. He did NOT go to 200
3. He's a young kid, possibly new instructor or DM and trying to look cool for friends/peers
4. He does not understand gas planning, redundant air, or the way doubles work.
5. Anything technical he thinks he knows, he learned from reading these boards.
6. Will not listen to anything we tell him because he hasn't been hurt yet, so it doesn't apply.

You guys have to realise that this guy really doesn't know anything as evident by his posts. He's just an open water diver/instructor. All this discussion about independant doubles, and gas management go right over his head. You are all feeding into his delusion. And taking his posts as face value (barely used my second tank), then having a discussion about his lies is really a waste of time and bandwith.

There are alot of good people on SB and TDS, please spend your time helping people that really want to learn, and stop feeding the fruitcakes like this guy.

I'm going diving now...

Cheers

 

[Dan Gibson]

Are you positive about that?

Seriously, I can't say at what point deep air may have long term effects, but there are some theories that it can be detrimental to one's long term health.

from what I can tell Dr Bill routinely dives 170 on air ...and he is none the worse for it.

 

[vladimir]

OTL: On the lam from the helium police?

 

[Mike Edmonston]

I am not one of the "rat him out" crowd, I'd just like him to get some training and do it...properly...before something bad happens.

I will GLADLY be branded as a snitch in this matter.

It is our responsability as a community to "police" ourselves and our instructors when we see gross violations of S&P. What do you think will happen when this "herodiver" kills someone, and the family finds out that his gross violations were not only known, but discussed for 17+ pages on numerous on-line forums, and NOBODY did a dam thing? Jeez... Maybe the papers and TV will get involved too... Ya think???

How will that make us look as a community? Incapable of keeping our own house? Irresponsable Xtreme sports fanatics?

How will the public view it?

Which government agency will be the first to police this "out of control" and "deadly" hobby?

Wake up folks, this goes much deeper than some punk diving in Cozumel!

Personally, I don't give a crap if this guy gets Advanced trimix certified through the US Navy... I would never recommend anyone to that operation.

If we don't police ourselves, then the government will eventually be more than happy to do it for us. That will REALLY give you guys something to chat about online...