Heated suit options besides Santi BZ400?

[RedSeaDiver2]

I’m afraid I don’t know. I’m kind of in @berndo ’s boat and don’t see value in a heated lightweight suit. I do suffer from Reynaud’s, so I understand your plight (or at least I think I do? It is ever hard to compare across individuals)

I will email Climashield and ask them.

 

[lermontov]

just before i forget- whatever you buy make sure it will fit under your dry suit - the santi ones are bulky and can be problematic if your dry suit is already snug

 

[RedSeaDiver2]

just before i forget- whatever you buy make sure it will fit under your dry suit - the santi ones are bulky and can be problematic if your dry suit is already snug

That is very good advice!

 

[RedSeaDiver2]

A question for the gurus - what are the characteristics of the sort of insulation we need for drysuit undersuits? Obviously a good ratio of thickness to warmth is important so as we can have a thinner undersuit, as is its ability to be washed.

What else are important attributes? What makes a material less susceptible to being compressed?

I did find this online which isn't specifically for diving but does describe various materials 12 Best Synthetic Insulation Materials for Outdoor Clothing | Vegan Down Alternatives

 

[berndo]

I may be in the minority here but the new Santi Flex 2.0 undersuit with the UWLD heat controller is about as good as it gets...so happy and warm.

Mind explaining why you're using it?
What temp range are you using this in. My reason for thinking thin and heated doesn't make much sense is that it's either warm enough for bz200 type and I don't need a heater or I move up in thickness.
What do you do if the heater fails and you still have deco to do?

 

[DiveTucson]

Mind explaining why you're using it?
What temp range are you using this in. My reason for thinking thin and heated doesn't make much sense is that it's either warm enough for bz200 type and I don't need a heater or I move up in thickness.
What do you do if the heater fails and you still have deco to do?

Sure. I run heat on most of my dives even if just for comfort. Most of my long dives 3+ hours are in 68-72F water and the 200 with heat is perfect for that with just a thin base layer. If I don't have heat can I be fine...sure but I also like to be comfortable. Leaving an extra battery is also a great option.

The Santi 400 suit in my opinion is really thick and constricting. For colder water I can use the 200 and the heated vest so I have a primary and backup heat option. I can also add layers on top if I really need to be warm. This works well for longer dives in really cold water 33-36F. With the vest and the 200 you have 400 at the core but the extremities are thinner for easier movement. You also get redundancy with the undergarments and can run redundant batteries on the outside.

What happens if the heater fails on the 400 and you still have deco to do?

 

[mr_v]

I completed my heated setup - all SF Tech + UWLD for electronics. It is not the cheapest option, but probably one of the best.

Pros:
- Can change individual components, as heating elements are not permanently attached
- Can buy new heating elements
- Can extend to include dry/heated gloves
- Can wash and air dry - underwear is Polartec
- UWLD offers 5 heat level settings
- Warm
- Top quality

Cons:
- Cost

Initial impressions - very warm at the lowest setting. I don't think I want to increase the heat level. I can totally see how this setup will turn the end of long cold dives from "adventure and endurance" to "pleasure."

As for the heated underwear vs. multi layer debate - heated layers all the way. Less bulk means less weight to take with you. With SF Tech, I can take out the heating elements during the summer and put them back in during winter.

Biggest regret? Not adding dry/heated gloves when I got my suit.

Setup:

Dry suit - SF Tech
Underwear - SF Tech
Heating elements - SF Tech
Valve - SF Tech
Battery and controller - UWLD

I am not affiliated with ParagonDiveAdventures and posting as a customer - always received great service from that team.

 

[Wibble]

Now had about 50 hours of diving in the custom-sized BZ400 heating so far. It is an excellent undersuit that's warm with or without the heating. When you need the heating, it's nice as it goes down the arms and legs too, so definitely fell a lot less cold than with a simple heated vest.

I like that it fits properly. Neck to crotch is the right size; easy to put on and easy to pull off (once the shoulders are off). A cold dive consists of a Fourth Element "tec" vest and the FE rash vest and long johns. So very quick to get dressed. If waiting around in the warm, the heated version of the BZ400 does not have braces/suspenders so is a bit awkward if half on, e.g. arms out. It fits very well into the Santi drysuit.

It washes well on a low temperature wash. Can tumble dry, but wouldn't want to do it for more than 15 mins. Dries out relatively quickly when hung up; definitely need a decent sized hanger (like a HangAir or Waterproof hanger).

Pee valve access on either side of the lower front zip.

The down side is it feels floaty. Definitely need to be positive about putting your legs down for the air to migrate to the suit dump. That's the only criticism I have of the design.

Was using it last week in Malin Head, Ireland for some MOD2 dives. The water temp is 9 degrees (48f) on the bottom and up to 15 degrees (59) at deco. Didn't use the heating at all through the week. I did have a pee valve failure -- bloody uncomfortable bordering painful as I'd failed to properly connect. Had to drive a few miles to a launderette and did a minimal low-temp 35 min wash and a 15 min tumble dry. By the morning the suit was both clean, better smelling, and dry, so didn't loose a dive!

Would I buy this again: absolutely. Makes diving in colder water almost pleasurable. Coldest water I've dived it is 7 degrees (44f).

 

[berndo]

Now had about 50 hours of diving in the custom-sized BZ400 heating so far. It is an excellent undersuit that's warm with or without the heating.

Yeah, they are warm when new.

It washes well on a low temperature wash. Can tumble dry, but wouldn't want to do it for more than 15 mins. Dries out relatively quickly when hung up;

You're not supposed to hang up to dry. Santi even say so in the instructions! And they do not wash well. Is the the first Thinsulate suit you've had?

 

[berndo]

The Santi 400 suit in my opinion is really thick and constricting.

If it fits properly it's not restricting my movement. It doesn't feel thick to me either. I'll add an extra layer of fleese on the torse for better insulation on longer dives too.
IMHO it's a bad idea to rely on a heater unless you absolutely have to. I guess that's a philosophical difference.

68-70f is pretty toasty. I wouldn't use a heater for a 3 hour dive just to use a thin undersuit.