help - kicking is causing me to ascend

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

chepar

Contributor
Messages
1,141
Reaction score
1
Location
Honolulu, Hawaii
A problem that I have been experiencing on my dives is that once I start moving, I slowly start to rise.

Upon descent, I can achieve a state of neutral buoyancy and can suspend motionless (rising and lowering a bit with my breathing)- but once I start kicking, I start moving forward - and up. Then comes the fiddling with dumping air to descend, then adding air to get back to neutral buoyancy - yes, I probably do look like the yo-yo that is inherently newbie-ish. :)

I figure that when I start kicking, my torso and head are probably at a higher elevation than my feet - and the kicking is giving me some lift. I have tried to kind of do the head down feet up posture - but haven't really found it to work too well unless it is kind of exaggerated - like I am dive bombing the bottom.

Any advice?
 
Some points to consider:

1) Do a proper buoyancy check. Every time you change your exposure protection or from fresh to salt water, you should do this. Don't forget to take into consideration the fact that if you have 1500 psi or less in an aluminum tank, it will start to be positively buoyant. So bear this in mind when doing your check.

2) Adjust your trim. You may need to move your weight around so it's not all sitting on your belt or BC. Putting some on your tank or the front of your BC may help in this area.

3) Relax your breathing. As you learned in open & confined water, bouyancy control & breathing go hand in hand. If you take in a big lungful of air you wil rise; and vice versa. Be conscious of your breathing pattern... try to even it out.

4) Look at is your gear configuration; if you're not streamliined, the extra drag could affect your bouyancy characteristics.

5) Stay horizontal. If you lift your head while you swim, the rest of your body follows.

Take heart..... true buoyancy control take time to develop. The more you dive, the better you'll get. :)

Bon chance,

~SubMariner~
 
I think SubMariner has hit on the probable solution to your problem. :thumb:

My first instinct is that, as you suspect, you are a bit head-high, and not horizontal in the water. You may be neutrally buoyant, but once you start to move, your head-high position means some of your fin thrust is taking you upwards.

Depending upon your BCD, you may be able to adjust your trim by shifting a small amount of your weight toward your head. You may have trim pockets on the back of your BC, but if not, moving a couple pounds into your BC pockets may help. Other options are to use a tanks weight that straps along the length of your tank (NOT a weight in the tank boot!).

An important consideration when moving some of your weight around is that you must be able to ditch sufficient weight to make yourself positively buoyant with an empty BCD. The alternatives are not good. :drown:
 
Sounds like good advice to me chepar. Make sure you do a proper buoyancy check at the surface and get your weighting straight. Don’t get frustrated, time and exposure to diving will bring you along. Don’t try to rush it. Get it right in your own time. We are all different and for some buoyancy comes easily and for some of use we must work at it a little harder or a little longer. It will however come and it will do so in your own time.

Dive Safe ………………………Arduous
 
chepar

All the points has been stated by the rest of the folks.

One thing you might want to take into consideration is that everytime you ascend a little, the air in your BCD and your exposure suit will expand which makes you become more positively bouyant.

So at anytime you start ascending you might want to also start dumping a little air.

And no worries about having problems with bouyancy, everybody have to start somewhere. Remember, practice makes perfect.

Happy diving.

Cheers.
 
I can't tell you for sure what is your problem, without seeing the way you dive. But I will bet 10 to 1 all of the other folks here were wrong. and the reson for you problem is simple- You do not swim right.

From my experience, A lot of people do not use their legs correctly and thus tend to ascend when strting to swim. I will give here a thorogh description of the whole process, and than advice on it-

First, what happens is that you probobly descend first while you are in vertical position. Than when you reach your final depth, you atain a horizontal posiotion. Fact is, that while horizontal, you tend to float more than while vertical (It has to do with static fraction and higher center of gravity).

Now-About this specific point-Men tend to have heavy feet, which couses their feet to sink, and put them in vertical poistion. If this is true in your case, that every time you stop, you became vertical, it will couse you to retain more bouyancy when strting to swim again (and thus cousing you to ascend).

Second-Swimming right- As I said, I am willing to put money (well, when I'll get some, at least) on a bet that you do not use your legs properly. You probobly tend to bend your knees too much. Bending you knees while divig will couse you to ascend. why? becouse bending you knees, in addition to the vector pushing you forward, will also creat a vector pushing you upward (the movement of the fin down, pushes more water than the movement up). I see people do it on every course I teach, some of them will not notice it, and even refuse to acknowledge the that they bend their knees, even though I clearly see it happen. They simply don't feel it, and think they are working properly.

Three-This thing is creating a cycle- While you start ascending, you get annoyed with it ("Why the hell do I go up?! I simply push harder down!"), and try to kick yourself down using the fins agressivly. Using your fins agresivly will couse you to breath more- and breathing more will couse you to... ASCEND. Why? becouse when you breath more the avarage volume of your lungs is bigger and this couses you to have larger volume on the same wegiht i.e-makes you lighter.

So- you empty your BC manage to achieve neutral bouyancy- BUT the moment you stop swimming to look at somthing- Wham! you fall down. So you fill it again. And than when starting to swim empty it, and so on and so on.

Ok- now to the part that really interests you-How to solve it?
few things-

First- A rule-Be calm. Being calm will make you more neutraly bouyant.

two- Swim SLOWLY. Nowhere to rush down there- the reef won't go anywhere. Swimming fast will couse you to bend your knees more, and breath more. Two things that will couse you to ascend.

Three-Practice correct swimming. Go to a pool with a snorkel, have someone watching your legs and correcting you if nessacery. Think about every movement your leg makes, dont let it do it's own "will".

Four-The above should work for 90% of peope. Some people simply can't swim right-in this case, what you'll have to do is adjust to a new diving position- Swim with your legs slightly higher than you head. This will creat a vector down to negate the up vector. If your phisique makes it tough (heavy legs) the solution is simple-Either place your weight belt higher (personaly, I usually dive with the weightbelt almost as high as my armpits), or attach small weights to the shoulder straps of your BC.

Well- That's about it.
Please tell me how it's going.
Hope I helped.
 
Originally posted by Liquid
I can't tell you for sure what is your problem, without seeing the way you dive. But I will bet 10 to 1 all of the other folks here were wrong.


Hi Liquid

Greetings..!

Just out of curiosity....isn't saying all of us wrong is a little too convenient? We were all giving suggestions of possibilities as we have not dived with Chepar.

Further more, I believe what you have mentioned is what the rest said but in a different and less technical manner. The only missing tip is the finning.

I also believe that this board is for all to give advice voluntarily. I surely felt a little awkward to be told that I am wrong or the rest of the folks. What happened to diplomacy?

Anyway, this posting is not meant to be offensive. I just wanted to ask for some respect for my/our opinions.

Cheers.
 
My trim in the water was just like you described.
I had to move weights so that I could remain perfectly horizontal.
With an Al 80 this meant 4 lbs high up on my harness.
I recently did a bouyancy workshop with my wife and son. This time I used a steel tank. All I had to do to get horizontal was to move the tank about 1 inch higher up.
Once I got this. when I start kicking I don't rise. When I stop kicking I don't sink. I can tuck my head to my chest and see what is going on behind me.

I remember the frustration before I got tips from this board and started working on it. Play with moving your weights around till you get it just right.

Hang in there. You'll get it.
 
Chepar, I think you got great advice here. You mentioned feeling like you were "dive-bombing" if you tried to get horizontal, and that it didn't feel natural. Well, that is exactly what I had to do. Yeah, it really DOES feel wierd the first few times, but then you start to realize where you need to add or subtract weights. You will be able to tell where you are "fighting" to keep horizontal, and get ideas on how to correct it. And, face it...humans aren't used to flying (which is what it's kind of live when you dive) so, it won't feel natural for a while.

Where you put your weights means alot. If your BC has trim pocket weights in the back, move some of the weight there. It helps to "press your body down" rather than "pull it down".

Also, what kind of tank are you using? In Hawaii, I'm guessing Aluminum? What size and is it compact or standard? If you don't know, ask the next time you rent a tank. Each type of tank has different bouyancy characteristics in different places. Like someone said before, where you place your tank can help alot in your trim.

Alot is just experimenting until you find what is right for you. Good Luck!
 
Shifting some weight upwards on yourself might be a good idea.

If your COG, including the added equipment and added weight is too low, it will tend to turn you head up.

So try moving some of this weight up. Making a change to the location of the tank, by moving it up, is a good idea. Play around with it a little bit and you'll get it right.

That would be my guess (and I am not the only one that guessed it).

Ari :)
 

Back
Top Bottom