HOG Changing policy/values??

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BB1

Contributor
Messages
690
Reaction score
23
Location
Brisvegas, Australia
# of dives
500 - 999
Hi,

As seen on Piranha website

"NOTICE: As of Monday July 19th Hog gear is going to MAP pricing"

Is this true? :shocked2: :confused: :shocked2:

I probably speak for many when I say that 1 of the reasons I choose HOG gear is because of you bucking "normal" dive industry practices.

I hope that isn't changing now.................
 
I agree One thing I have to do as it is now when purchasing other things is call a few different shops to get my price great theing about hog one place already has great deals. Switching your system might wind up loosing a few customers if pricing becomes too high
 
Hmmm... I have always had a MAP price in effect, from day 1.

No values have changed at all, the goal is still to offer the absolute best performance and value in the industry, bar none. Bang for buck if you will.

Part of having bang for buck is having dealers to support the user base, part of having dealers is making sure they can compete in the marketplace. In business there needs to be profit. In fact it would be fair to say that EDGE/HOG has been fortunate that we have attracted the cream of the crop when it comes to customer service and forward looking dealers.

Let me post here publicly what I wrote to my dealers in the dealer newsletter concerning MAP, I have however removed a couple actual margin figures from this post for obvious reasons

"It would be accurate to say that HOG has grown in recognition very quickly. I have been under some pressure lately by some of you, and even more pressure from non EDGE/HOG dealers (“I would carry EDGE/HOG if the prices were higher&#8221:wink: and of course other brands to price the products at a higher price point.
In 2007 at the DEMA show in Orlando, I introduced the HOG Brand to the dive industry. At that time, I wrote the following:

“HOG is being sold with a different marketing strategy than EDGE gear. For this type of gear the market is largely influenced by Technical Instructors and the Internet, and generally speaking the local dive store has been left out or matching at very low margins.
As a result, we are positioning HOG products as PRICE POINT products, designed to offer consumers extreme quality and value products at unbeatable price points. We know that this formula won’t work for every dive shop but are confident that it will work VERY well for the “right” dive shops.
All HOG products have a MAP which must be adhered to and all terms of the EDGE Dealer Agreement are in force.”

Since I wrote the above the biggest change in the market has been a tighter economy that has in fact made the pressures and difficulty of selling “technical” gear even more difficult for the local retailer. HOG offers both online and local retailers a product at an EXCEPTIONAL price point. These price points are designed to drive business into HOG dealers as divers seek out the brand. If you are a Local Dive Store teaching technical programs you don’t have to see all your students with gear bought online, if you are a online retailer you no longer have to bid a 20-25% margin to make the sale to the wanna be tech diver with a high degree of skill at googling for the best price.
The explosive growth of HOG and success for the majority of my dealers with the brand has convinced me to continue this course.
IT IS BECAUSE OF THIS THAT I WANT TO REMIND ALL HOG DEALERS THAT THERE IS NO REASON TO VIOLATE MAP (IN DEED OR SPIRIT), THE PRICES AND VALUE CAN NOT BE BEAT AND THERE IS NO BENEFIT TO ANYBODY TO LEAD A “RACE TO THE BOTTOM”! MAP VIOLATIONS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!"


In short nothing has really changed, there have been a couple small price increases that simply reflect products that I'm paying a higher price on (For instance changing to fully chromed SPG's versus simple nickle plating,)and also the reality that shipping costs have almost doubled in the last year.

I remind everybody that MAP is simply setting the bottom on advertised pricing (including web store pricing), it in no way a restriction placed on my dealers regarding what they are allowed to sell the product for. That is between the dealer and their customer and is none of my business.

I hope this clears up any misunderstanding concerning policy.

I promise that we will continue to offer the absolute best value in the industry, that is a bedrock value that we will not be changing.
 
I agree One thing I have to do as it is now when purchasing other things is call a few different shops to get my price great theing about hog one place already has great deals. Switching your system might wind up loosing a few customers if pricing becomes too high

The reason for that is BECAUSE of our MAP policy. Our MAP is based on offering the absolute best value to the consumer while still providing dealers with enough profit to make selling the brand viable.
 
I remind everybody that MAP is simply setting the bottom on advertised pricing (including web store pricing), it in no way a restriction placed on my dealers regarding what they are allowed to sell the product for. That is between the dealer and their customer and is none of my business.

I understand ... your not regulating the price, your regulating the advertising
thank you for your post
 
When customers are unable to easily see an advertised price difference between dealers you have realistically removed the ability of dealers to compete on price. Please dont pretend that your MAP requirements do not affect this by only affecting the advertising, and please dont pretend that you are the knight in shining armor for the store owners. A well run operation and a competitive business model are all that is necessary. Your MAP requirements are only supportive of closed market practices and are a behavior that only hurts the consumer. A dive business owner deserves the ability to compete with his or her peers including with the metric of price. Having moved to from America to Europe I have become accustom to open internet sales and clearly advertised price competition. This has allowed both large and small vendors to openly compete with each other and honestly earn my business. I now more often support a smaller LDS than i ever did in the US. Price is an important purchase decision for me as is service and after sales support. A smaller shop who is competitive with price in one area and has offered me a good overall experience will win my support with other items and other services and training offerings regardless of price. American consumers need to begin to resist manufacturers that apply such pressure to the industry, and spend their money with manufacturers that are more open to American style competition. Until that happens this consumer unfriendly practice will continue and all to the detriment of the person who matters most, the final customer. So HOG you need to decide if you are in business to create and sell products for store owners or for divers.
 
When customers are unable to easily see an advertised price difference between dealers you have realistically removed the ability of dealers to compete on price. Please dont pretend that your MAP requirements do not affect this by only affecting the advertising, and please dont pretend that you are the knight in shining armor for the store owners. A well run operation and a competitive business model are all that is necessary. Your MAP requirements are only supportive of closed market practices and are a behavior that only hurts the consumer. A dive business owner deserves the ability to compete with his or her peers including with the metric of price. Having moved to from America to Europe I have become accustom to open internet sales and clearly advertised price competition. This has allowed both large and small vendors to openly compete with each other and honestly earn my business. I now more often support a smaller LDS than i ever did in the US. Price is an important purchase decision for me as is service and after sales support. A smaller shop who is competitive with price in one area and has offered me a good overall experience will win my support with other items and other services and training offerings regardless of price. American consumers need to begin to resist manufacturers that apply such pressure to the industry, and spend their money with manufacturers that are more open to American style competition. Until that happens this consumer unfriendly practice will continue and all to the detriment of the person who matters most, the final customer. So HOG you need to decide if you are in business to create and sell products for store owners or for divers.

I create products for divers that is sold by Dive Shops. I am NOT removing the ability of my dealers to compete in any means.

Your own argument is circular, you start with telling me that I "have realistically removed the ability of dealers to compete on price" yet further on you state "A smaller shop who is competitive with price in one area and has offered me a good overall experience will win my support with other items and other services and training offerings regardless of price". Which is it? Regardless the truth is I control nothing in regards to pricing and service offered by my dealers, all I control is what I sell it to them for and require them to not devalue the product by advertising below a set MINIMUM Advertising Price (MAP)

It is interesting that you mention "American style competition", the supreme court of the UNITED STATES has ruled that a manuf. may in fact require dealers to not discount as a condition of being a dealer, in effect allowing the manuf.to set retail selling price points.That is a very common practice in the dive industry for all or some products among MANY brands that EDGE/HOG will not be following.

The truth is the very nature of the price point of EDGE and HOG make the product clearly exceptionally competitive in the market place based on price points.

EDGE/HOG views other brands as the competition, as such I structure my programs to allow me and my dealers to compete with other brands.

I disagree with your assertion that my policies hurt the consumer, you can purchase a HOG D1 Doubles Set up with two balanced Adjustable second stages, two D1 Balanced First Stages and a HOG SPG at MAP from many of my dealers for $552.93. Think about that, I can list a dozen or more mainstream regulators that cost more than that for a single regulator and they offer no performance or feature benefit over HOG. (heck for fun check out this chart ScubaLab: Regulators - July 2010 Expanded Data: Features Chart | Scuba Diving Magazine or even a better chart http://www.scubadiving.com/gear/regulators/2010/04/scubalab-from-rec-to-tec-tech-regulators)

My last point is one that may not occur to you, the EDGE area of Scubaboard is actually an area where the manufs get to edit or delete posts. Yours will stay here, I promise you other brands wouldn't have....:D
 
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CR --thank you for the explanation. As a scuba instructor who is working with a shop that sells a package of your gear, I appreciate your business policies. You allow me, an instructor, to offer my students good gear at very reasonable prices. This allows me to charge a fair price for my services while providing my students with an overall excellent value of instruction AND gear.
 
Thanks for making it little more clear, Your gear is definetly of high quality. I have not had the opperunity to dive a reg set of your's yet but 2 good dive buddies use your gear regs/spg's etc.. and love it. Looking forward to some more great gear coming out.
 
Thanks Chris. Not only for great gear and great service but for the clear explanation. Again MAP is nothing more than helping dealers to compete on as level a field as possible while allowing them to charge their customers whatever they see fit. I'm sure Chris would not care if I had a shop, advertised at MAP to get customers in then if I liked them or if they were female and hot gave them another 20%off. That is, as he said, my business. I'm not going to go out and tell everyone I did that. The customer I have no control over.

Try that with some other brands. I have a SP reg on my deco bottle that I got cheap from a dealer. I was instructed to lie to SP when registering it for warranty what I paid. Otherwise they could get in trouble with them. HOG/Edge will also sell you service kits, support their product, and return calls and emails usually within 24 hrs. Try that with SP, AL, and others.
 

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