drrich2
Contributor
Hi. The debate over what COVID-19 policies a liveaboard has or ought to have, especially beyond what the host country requires, has been hotly contentious on ScubaBoard. This thread isn't about deciding who's right (moral rightness isn't a popularity contest). It's about getting a sense of what COVID-19 policies SB divers who go (or plan to) on liveaboard trips prefer be in place. There are pro.s and con.s with any of this. There will be disagreement...hopefully mutually respectful disagreement. See the 7-31-22 thread Liveaboard Covid quarantine- Debate.
1.) COVID-19 vaccines are widely available and illness is usually mild (e.g.: not a matter of hospitalization or death), but a small minority get hospitalized or die. Then again, that's true of the flu (disclaimer: nobody wants the flu, either). There are some concerns about long COVID.
2.) SARS-CoV-2 is so prevalent that random intermittent exposure and occasional infection may simply be facts of life for many, perhaps even most.
3.) We vary widely in our acceptance of risk. Old adage - 'Your rights end where my nose begins' - you don't have the right to put me at risk. But we do that every time we get behind the wheel of a car. Classically depicted as a moral absolute, it's really a bit of a gray area.
4.) To read online debates, precaution sticklers seem to have the lead; to look around Walmart or most anywhere else precautions are optional, lax people seem to dominate.
So I wrote out this poll. A little follow up to some of the options.
1.) Can have you denied embarkation and you likely can't fly home, so you're stuck in a foreign country for a week+ with no accommodation or food arrangements, and there may be no one standing there to come up with a plan. Will the government mandatorily quarantine you somewhere? On what terms? Do you even know whether they will or not?
2.) I had to do this before a Royal Caribbean cruise last July. You buy plane tickets, book excursions if any, have all this multi-month buildup...and don't know till 2 days beforehand whether you can even go. And travel from the U.S. to some destinations takes 2-3 days. Will the airline refund your ticket or reschedule you?
What about the mass of people you encounter at the airport, on planes and shuttles, in restaurants, etc..., between your test and boarding? Or the fact you may've had the virus too soon to test positive when you took your test?
3.) Here unless you get debilitatingly ill (or mildly ill and choose to test yourself and are positive), you fly in and board the boat. You might transmit the virus to someone or they you, but you're willing to take that chance. Problem...if someone gets a sore throat or feels bad and gets tested, and announces a positive result, now what? Are they quarantined (which liveaboards aren't well set up to do)? Is the trip cancelled (and if so, do you get a pro-rated refund)? Does this beat everyone out of flying home? If the company doesn't have a set of backup staff, does the boat cancel the next week? Can you fly home? If not, once you get off the boat, then what?
4.) This option assumes SARS-CoV-2 is circulating everywhere and unless someone is severely debilitated you don't want to let it disrupt your travel plans. So if you get a sore throat, keep your mouth shut. Most people probably wouldn't test themselves, either...full deniability. Rather than write supporters off as selfish, sociopaths, etc..., consider they may reckon the net cost of the disruptions in 1 - 3 greater than the burden of illness risk here, especially since they don't test before getting in line at Walmart, etc... And while you may resent their imposing disease risk on others, they may resent others imposing disruption risk on them with the policies in 1.) and 2.).
Note: I put a 30-day time limit on this poll because the pandemic situation has changed so much so fast that results need to be viewed in the context of a limited time period and situation.
1.) COVID-19 vaccines are widely available and illness is usually mild (e.g.: not a matter of hospitalization or death), but a small minority get hospitalized or die. Then again, that's true of the flu (disclaimer: nobody wants the flu, either). There are some concerns about long COVID.
2.) SARS-CoV-2 is so prevalent that random intermittent exposure and occasional infection may simply be facts of life for many, perhaps even most.
3.) We vary widely in our acceptance of risk. Old adage - 'Your rights end where my nose begins' - you don't have the right to put me at risk. But we do that every time we get behind the wheel of a car. Classically depicted as a moral absolute, it's really a bit of a gray area.
4.) To read online debates, precaution sticklers seem to have the lead; to look around Walmart or most anywhere else precautions are optional, lax people seem to dominate.
So I wrote out this poll. A little follow up to some of the options.
1.) Can have you denied embarkation and you likely can't fly home, so you're stuck in a foreign country for a week+ with no accommodation or food arrangements, and there may be no one standing there to come up with a plan. Will the government mandatorily quarantine you somewhere? On what terms? Do you even know whether they will or not?
2.) I had to do this before a Royal Caribbean cruise last July. You buy plane tickets, book excursions if any, have all this multi-month buildup...and don't know till 2 days beforehand whether you can even go. And travel from the U.S. to some destinations takes 2-3 days. Will the airline refund your ticket or reschedule you?
What about the mass of people you encounter at the airport, on planes and shuttles, in restaurants, etc..., between your test and boarding? Or the fact you may've had the virus too soon to test positive when you took your test?
3.) Here unless you get debilitatingly ill (or mildly ill and choose to test yourself and are positive), you fly in and board the boat. You might transmit the virus to someone or they you, but you're willing to take that chance. Problem...if someone gets a sore throat or feels bad and gets tested, and announces a positive result, now what? Are they quarantined (which liveaboards aren't well set up to do)? Is the trip cancelled (and if so, do you get a pro-rated refund)? Does this beat everyone out of flying home? If the company doesn't have a set of backup staff, does the boat cancel the next week? Can you fly home? If not, once you get off the boat, then what?
4.) This option assumes SARS-CoV-2 is circulating everywhere and unless someone is severely debilitated you don't want to let it disrupt your travel plans. So if you get a sore throat, keep your mouth shut. Most people probably wouldn't test themselves, either...full deniability. Rather than write supporters off as selfish, sociopaths, etc..., consider they may reckon the net cost of the disruptions in 1 - 3 greater than the burden of illness risk here, especially since they don't test before getting in line at Walmart, etc... And while you may resent their imposing disease risk on others, they may resent others imposing disruption risk on them with the policies in 1.) and 2.).
Note: I put a 30-day time limit on this poll because the pandemic situation has changed so much so fast that results need to be viewed in the context of a limited time period and situation.
