HOG D1 Bad Freeflows at Surface

[SnorkelLA]

Received my HOG regs today, went out and had the IP checked, was right in the 144psi range, purging and breathing the regulator made the standard 1-2 notch jump like normal, was able to purge it and no Freeflows when the system was connected to the IP machine. By the way, these things breathe like a dream! Better than anything Ive ever put in my mouth

Now, once I got to the pool, I turned on my tank, gave the purge button on my primary a quick press and an all out Freeflows occurred, turning the adjustment knob stopped it, so I left it there, other one same thing, adjusted until it stopped.

Got into the pool, every time I put my reg down (admittedly mouthpiece up) they hissed and Freeflows worse than rentals. Of course they breathed like a dream when in my mouth, and the octo was fine. But I decided to test the reg by removing it from my mouth and holding it mouthpiece up and giving it a quick shake, freeflowed until I turned it over or adjusted it.

Never had it Freeflows once in my mouth or while underwater without being mouthpiece up, but it IS enough of an issue where it would be best to fix it, especially the Freeflows I had upon dry purging.

I think it may have to do With the cracking pressure, but I'm not entirely sure. Can someone tell me if this is normal for these regs, if they are just breaking themselves in, or what?

I'm perfectly comfortable opening the regs up and doing whatever needs to be done. The perform fine, save for the Freeflows, other than that, we're all good!

Thanks!


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[HenrikBP]

Well, you mention cracking pressure, and that's kinda what this is about. One way to check cracking pressure is to gradually submerge a 2nd stage in water mouthpiece up and front/diaphragm down. On a finely tuned regulator, air should start flowing when the reg is submerged to where the diaphragm is ~3/4" below the surface (some will tune them finer still). Once the air starts flowing - depending on where your "venturi" is set - flow may continue quite vigorously.

With that in mind, I'm not terribly surprised that your 2nd stage starts to flow air, when you submerge it mouthpiece up I would be more concerned if you could dip the whole 2nd stage without starting air flow

You can check the cracking pressure yourself using the described technique and see how "deep" the 2nd stage can be submerged before flow starts. Keep in mind that you're estimating/measuring from the diaphragm, not the cover of the reg. Anywhere from 3/4" - 1 1/2" would be acceptable. I prefer my regs towards the lower number. Make sure you test with the cracking pressure adjustment all the way out.

Let us know what you find.

Henrik

 

[SnorkelLA]

Yeah, it flows right in line with those numbers, my concern is when it happens underwater, like when I had it mouthpiece up and gave it a shake. I had the adjustment valve all the way down with the Venturi wide open and the flow was very vigorous on the surface. Should I be concerned with how it happens underwater?

I seem to remember now that there was once where my octo freeflowed, I had to use an octo sleeve because i left my bungee at home, and it freeflowed a bit, but now that I think about it, using a octo sleeve puts it In a mouthpiece up position.

I'm just concerned about why it did it not submerged just by pressing the purge button, and how vigorous it was then, on the surface, and underwater


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[HenrikBP]

First: I apologize for late night brain fade; there's no need to hold down the purge button when you adjust the cracking pressure knob - I was thinking of service, where you dial in the orifice. So just ignore that part

It sounds to me - hard to accurately diagnose these things "by internet" - like your 2 stages are adjusted similar to mine. My primary will occasionally free flow a bit on the surface, and it will also free flow under water if I'm clipping the primary first stage off. But I don't find it to be a big problem - just flip it mouthpiece down, and it should stop. And the big advantage to a well tuned reg of course is how nice they are to breathe.

On my backup 2nd stage, which I have bungied under my chin, I dial in the cracking pressure adjuster, to where it doesn't easily free flow. When I go to breathe off of that stage, I can easily dial the cracking pressure down for easier breathing.

That's one big advantage - I find - to adjustable 2nd stages; you can tune them very "light" and use the dial to adjust to the situation.

Just checked the notes for my 2nd stages, and my cracking pressures, as tested on a manometer, with the dial all the way out, are around 1/2".

If you're concerned, and would like actual numbers, can you ask the shop where you purchased the regs to check them out?

Btw. I'm not sure what you mean when you say the Venture "wide open"? I believe there are "+" and "-" markings. With the venturi set towards the "+", the venturi effect helps keep the air flow going once it has started.

Henrik

 

[chrpai]

What should the IP on a Hog D1 be? Mine shows 130psi.

 

[divad]

I had the adjustment valve all the way down with the Venturi wide open and the flow was very vigorous on the surface.

Close the venturi .

 

[SnorkelLA]

What should the IP on a Hog D1 be? Mine shows 130psi.

Anywhere from 125-150 is the general "acceptable" range among my LDS, I believe that the real thing to be concerned about is if the reg is doing it's job by lowering it to ambient pressure without creeping.

And thanks again for the advice, Henrik, I was wondering, if I gave that allen screw on the inside of the reg hose a very small fraction of a turn would it help? Or should I leave it the way it is, because as far as breathe function goes, they are top notch, just with the annoying freeflows on the surface. But I suppose I could leave the venturi on -, I did that with my octo and it solved the issue

So, should I give it a very small adjustment or leave it how it is? Also, should I be concerned about those vicious freeflows I had when I pressed the purge button after turning my air on? It never happened again, strangely enough, when I purged on the surface and underwater but they were WIDE OPEN with the venturi switch on +

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By the way, I just wanted to tell Chris how great his regs are, and DRIS was very prompt getting these to me, I can't wait to test them in the frigid lake this Saturday!

 

[elan]

IMHO Your IP is set high, the higher the IP the easier it is to breath but the more nervous the reg is.

I have my Apeks set for warm water easy breathing at 10 bar Ihave to be very carefull with it but it breathes very easy.
I have most of my other regs set at 125-135 for the cold water.
BTW all my high performance second stages will freeflow mouthpiece up especially with ventury on.
Increase the cranking pressure or lower your IP it will not be breathing that zasy but will not be nervous.

 

[SnorkelLA]

Yeah, the majority of the diving I'll be doing will be in 50ish degree water average. You think the reg the way it's set now will be a problem in that coldish water? The freeflows really aren't problematic, just an inconvenience and a waste of air.

If it means anything I also got the D1 cold water reg

 

[cerich]

135-145 is the IP range , you are at the top of it.

What you are describing is simply the venturi effect you get from a high performance reg, when it starts flowing there is a low pressure area created behind the diaphragm that keeps it depressed and the lever open and the flow coming. Moving the BIG red lever on the reg to the - position (front) will normally stop it, putting your thumb in the mouthpiece also works. Beating it like I see many do and mentioned in this thread...well you may as well beat your head against a wall.

Once you understand why this happens and how easy it is to stop it should be something that never bugs you again.

This happens with LOTS of regs, not unique to HOG at all.

You can get it detuned so this does not happen, honestly once yopu get used to the performance you will most likely enjoy it.

To my fellow Canuck from the big TO, ELAN, yeah if I was still in Canada I would set the IP to the low end of the reg and if ice diving below the low end of the range. In warm water 145 is fine.

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ROFLMAO, 50 degrees is NOT cold water! it's just chilly.

Yeah, the majority of the diving I'll be doing will be in 50ish degree water average. You think the reg the way it's set now will be a problem in that coldish water? The freeflows really aren't problematic, just an inconvenience and a waste of air.

If it means anything I also got the D1 cold water reg