Hogarthian and Jacket BCs?

[scubafool]

My 1/2 cent worth, as there are folks out there who could dive with a garbage bag and a rock tied to their waist and do a much better dive than I could. With all due respect to the man, I don't think that this forum was intended to espouse the ideals of a single man, rather, I get the feeling that it was asked for (& created to) foster discussion of gear configurations for (mainly) technical diving that would fall outside of the DIR realm. Seems to me that if we limit ourselves to one style of BC, that we automatically limit our options.

BTW, I dive a BP/W's, and you would have to pay me rather well to dust off my jacket that I curently have relegated to dust bunny collection duty,

 

[Rick Murchison]

You forgot the only computer back then was a watch. and if you didn't have a spg you sure had a J valve.

HHhhaarrr!
"J" valves were for wimps. All real man divers used "K" valves; when it got hard to breathe the dive was over.
Rick

 

[Freeflyer]

Having found this board, I have thoroughly enjoyed learning about the varying configurations and the reasoning behind them. I have watched the DIR divers have their say and thought deeply about the philosophy they espouse. I have read for days and days and learned more than I ever thought I would about diving, it's equipment and the ways to use it.

I have come to the conclusion that Hogarthian is where I find myself, and I have started to change the way I rig my gear and make choices in purchasing. As I dive a BC, that is what I am starting to refine. I'm making changes such as streamlining as best I can, about to go the necklace backup and eventually a long hose.

Ultimately, I will at least make and try out a backplate configuration to see how that fares. I think that many people are starting to make similar moves without going directly to a backplate simply because of cost. If you have already made a significant investment in your gear, are you going to go out and rebuy it all over again? Not unless you have more free cash than I do, but a gradual refinement and move in the hogarthian direction is a reasonable way to go about it.

It is this that brings me into the hogarthian fold. DIR has one way, and only one way, whereas the members on this section of the forum are more open to compromises and gradual changes, which makes it easier for people to come over to another side of diving.

I've had people start to ask me why I rig my gear the way I do, and that leads to discussions, which help explore reasonings, which in turn continues to make me think about WHY I'm doing things the way I do. It helps that I dive with a few people who are already on backplates and they're helping me work through my choices and, just like here, I benefit from their experience and they encourage me to think about why I'm doing something rather than just follow blindly.

So, I think it is possible to use a BC in a hogarthian style, as a general move towards a more efficient and thought directed way of diving.

Thanks, I look forward to continuing to learn here.

Justin.

 

[Quarrior]

My 1/2 cent worth, as there are folks out there who could dive with a garbage bag and a rock tied to their waist and do a much better dive than I could. With all due respect to the man, I don't think that this forum was intended to espouse the ideals of a single man, rather, I get the feeling that it was asked for (& created to) foster discussion of gear configurations for (mainly) technical diving that would fall outside of the DIR realm. Seems to me that if we limit ourselves to one style of BC, that we automatically limit our options.

BTW, I dive a BP/W's, and you would have to pay me rather well to dust off my jacket that I curently have relegated to dust bunny collection duty,

I can't speak for all who asked for this forum, but, my intent was not strictly aimed at Technical, rather it was airmed at the flexibility and streamlining offered by using the basic principles. I think the most importants things that can be brought from this configuration is simply, if you don't need it, don't take it. If you do need it, take 2. Seems pretty simple to me.

I do not see any reason a person using a regular jacket BC could not fit within the concept of Hogarthian assuming they are working to make their gear safer and thereby making themselves safer divers.

Brian

 

[Quarrior]

We said Justin.

Having found this board, I have thoroughly enjoyed learning about the varying configurations and the reasoning behind them. I have watched the DIR divers have their say and thought deeply about the philosophy they espouse. I have read for days and days and learned more than I ever thought I would about diving, it's equipment and the ways to use it.

I have come to the conclusion that Hogarthian is where I find myself, and I have started to change the way I rig my gear and make choices in purchasing. As I dive a BC, that is what I am starting to refine. I'm making changes such as streamlining as best I can, about to go the necklace backup and eventually a long hose.

Ultimately, I will at least make and try out a backplate configuration to see how that fares. I think that many people are starting to make similar moves without going directly to a backplate simply because of cost. If you have already made a significant investment in your gear, are you going to go out and rebuy it all over again? Not unless you have more free cash than I do, but a gradual refinement and move in the hogarthian direction is a reasonable way to go about it.

It is this that brings me into the hogarthian fold. DIR has one way, and only one way, whereas the members on this section of the forum are more open to compromises and gradual changes, which makes it easier for people to come over to another side of diving.

I've had people start to ask me why I rig my gear the way I do, and that leads to discussions, which help explore reasonings, which in turn continues to make me think about WHY I'm doing things the way I do. It helps that I dive with a few people who are already on backplates and they're helping me work through my choices and, just like here, I benefit from their experience and they encourage me to think about why I'm doing something rather than just follow blindly.

So, I think it is possible to use a BC in a hogarthian style, as a general move towards a more efficient and thought directed way of diving.

Thanks, I look forward to continuing to learn here.

Justin.

 

[jerrynuss]

The concept to me is continual refinement and simplification while striving to improve safety. I've always used the neck ring to attach the extra second stage around my neck since they came out. I learned to dive on a back pack and one second stage and a spg. But I advanced to using a bc and extra second stage. When I started cave diving I was trained to bungee the long hose along the side of my doubles. This required a buddy to restuff the hose if it was deployed and it could also pull free. The evolution was to do the wrap common as people do today. I used to tuck the hose under the canister light, but now I changed that to tucking it inside the belt and it deploys even easier. My first cave diving buddy used to butt mount his battery canister by hanging it from d-rings attached to the doubles. It used to always get in the way when he was removing his doubles or got banged around gearing up. He evolved and moved the canister to the belt. If a person is diving a jacket that can be practical but it may not be the most stable. I train openwater students in backplates and wings and in jackets. They still use the neck ring and long hose. If they are going to want or need a redundant gas supply such as doubles then the wing is a good way to support the weight and is much more stable than a jacket. I have evolved from the B/P and wing and doubles to a sidemount rig now. I can carry the same amount of gas yet can now travel and fly with the sidemount harness and rent two cylinders and have my redundant gas supply. The sidemount rig is much more versatile than the manifolded doubles. I use the same regulators as I do with the doubles with the addition of an additional spg, still use the neck ring and still breath the long hose on one side. My canister light is mounted in the same place and all the d-rings are the same so I can sling stages and deco cylinders in the same way as I do with the B/P and wing and manifolded doubles. For me this was a hogarthian evolution. I can dive the sidemount rig anywhere and I have a redundant gas and regulator system. Cylinders can be acquired more easily and it travels well. This has helped my back and knees tremendously, loading gear on and off the boat is so much easier too. I still have several backplates and doubles but they don't get the use they used to. To me that was the next logical progression and could even be the spot to land after a leap past double for some people.

 

[dblknotspy]

What does anyone think about the Deep Uotdoors Matrix Freedom http://www.deepoutdoors.com/freedom.htm
and DIR/Hogarthian?

 

[Quarrior]

What does anyone think about the Deep Uotdoors Matrix Freedom http://www.deepoutdoors.com/freedom.htm
and DIR/Hogarthian?

Looks a lot like the DiveRite version. This one has way to many D-rings and will actually cause confusion when you start hooking things up to it.

You really only need 3 or 4 D-rings for normal diving. One on each shoulder strap, one on each side of your waste.

If you are going to get into serious techinical diving, then you'll probably want a D-ring on the back side of the crotch strap for your reel (I have my reel on my right hip D-ring and haven't had a problem with it) and one on the front to hook your scooter to.

Actually, I would suggest just going to www.deepseasupply.com and get a plate and regular harness and hardware. Save yourself a lot of hassle.

 

[JDostal]

I'll toss my $.02 in here.

When my fiance took her first cave class, she was still in a very basic jacket BC. She had everything else set, just hadn't sprung for a new bp/wings yet. And she did very well in the class. We had to come up with a few creative solutions for setting it up properly (due to lack of d-rings and such) but it did work. It was a very clean and simple setup. I think you can at least get pretty close with a jacket, but a backplate makes it a lot easier.