Home improvement store clips vs bolt snaps

[Bob DBF]

Wow. Sad. As a solo diver I wouldn't think a bunch of tools, high speed negative descents, and penetration would be prudent. SDI Solo Diver course absolutely "prohibits" (can't think of the right word) penetration dives. He might have been very experienced, but it sounds like he was an accident waiting to happen.

Well, at the time of the accident in '85 there were only solo divers, not solo diving courses. And actually Wreck Diver is more descriptive of the situation than solo in this example.

You have to look at this with perspective, as the procedures and gear we use now have evolved because of the accidents and close calls of the past.

Below is a link to a description of the accident.
Deep Descent: Adventure and Death Diving the Andrea Doria


Bob

 

[dberry]

I've come across monofilament lines that are nowhere near a wreck, but haven't gotten entangled. The dangers of carabiners in diving may be over-hyped, but bolt snaps are pretty darn convenient. And with 'biners there can be an issue with having the object to be released on the wrong end and getting trapped by the gate - requiring an extra bit of time to straighten out. It's nice to be able to remove a clipped object by touch, without having to look.

I do carry a z-cutter and trauma shears, but a recent conversation with another diver about kevlar fishing line did make me wonder. Has anyone here encountered fishing line the shears can't handle?

OBTW, to the person wondering about so many cables hanging around a wreck... one visit to a wreck that was not intentionally sunk as an artificial reef would explain that in a second. Electrical, hydraulics, and who knows what else can spill out every where.

 

[KevinNM]

I do carry a z-cutter and trauma shears, but a recent conversation with another diver about kevlar fishing line did make me wonder. Has anyone here encountered fishing line the shears can't handle?

That's part of why metal to metal connections are bad. If you can't get the cable untangled or cut you can cut away the bolt snap at the cave line that attaches it to your BCD. If that is where you are entangled, getting your 1st stage regulator and valve entangled just sucks.

 

[kelemvor]

Well, at the time of the accident in '85 there were only solo divers, not solo diving courses. And actually Wreck Diver is more descriptive of the situation than solo in this example.

You have to look at this with perspective, as the procedures and gear we use now have evolved because of the accidents and close calls of the past.

Below is a link to a description of the accident.
Deep Descent: Adventure and Death Diving the Andrea Doria


Bob

Good read. It's been a few years since I read about that and had forgotten most of it apparently.

 

[FinnMom]

I just don't see the logic in using something that is known to possibly cause problems when you can just as easily and at no greater expense use something that is not problematic.

In 30+ yrs have never, ever dropped anything heavy on my foot in a barn, and I think that's really a construction site type of problem. But when working in a barn I wear boots with steel toes nonetheless. But sure, this my choice. We all need to make own choices - and leave others in peace who make different choices.

 

[tridacna]

If I can use a bolt scap with nylon undergloves, woll glove liners and 1/8cm plastic drygloves (and I can), any normal person can use bolt snaps too.

Caribiners can also create a Godawful mess if you stuff is stored in a pile somewhere. It's Murphey's law: if it can annoy you by hooking onto something, sometime between eventually and constantly it will.

I think the Doria diver who died clipped onto a cable by one of those was Billy Deans. (I Didn't look it up! If I'm right I want a pie piece for sports trivia . The diver who had one hideously tangled into loose line (made a nice 1/2 haybale-sized mess of gloves, hoods, long underwear, etc) was yours truely.

It doesn't need to matter whether you should use "suicide clips" or not. A stainless steel bolt snap will last longer than a standard caribiner; the cheap ones don't just rust, they also break. Buy the SS boltsnap because it's a better value.

I reckon Billy Deans may be really interested in hearing about his death on the Doria. No pie for you. Diver was John Ormsby who was buddied with Billy.

 

[KevinNM]

For some value of buddy.

 

[tridacna]

For some value of buddy.

Do you know anything about the accident are you just blowing troll smoke?

 

[KevinNM]

Do you know anything about the accident are you just blowing troll smoke?

They separated at about 20 feet after he got freed from the entanglement with the rope and he crashed down to 250 without anyone on his "team" knowing where the hell he was other then he was last seen descending. Until he was found some large number of minutes later unconscious and entangled at 250 feet. That's a pretty extreme version of same ocean buddy diving.

 

[dberry]

The linked article made it seem like Ormsby chose to ignore his team's dive plan, entered the wreck, and then got into trouble. Definitely not team diving.