Horrible Divers Everywhere?

[ofg-1]

My take at this point is that you have reached max. trolling potential. You cannot deal with reality, and want to churn up the people that want to have another bad diver, bad agency, bad training festival that we seem to get every couple of months. You do not want to acknowledge that there are hundreds of people at the bridge most days swimming and snorkeling, or that the area has been used as a confined water training setting for over 30 years. Or that the people you saw may have only had a tank on their backs 2 or 3 times before going there. Those little fish are smart enough to not let a diver sit on them, and they can dig another hole, its sand, they are not excavating a quarry. I doubt you have ever been in the position of trying to maintain control of 4 or 5 strangers underwater while making sure they can clear their masks, hoping one or more of them do not spit out their regulator and bolt to the surface, all while being paid minimum wage or close to it.

You miss the real issues that have plagued the coast in this area for 40 years. Most of the close shore reefs from Pompano to Fort Pierce are gone, either beat to crap and buried by storms or by beach "re nourishment" that has dumped a zillion cubic yards of sand along the shore so the condo owners will have a beach. And the big dredges do not give a rats ass about a blenny.

As a native Floridian, I give the same advise to everyone. This is not the same Florida it was 45 years ago before the giant mouse moved in. If you don't like the crowds, the traffic, the people that have come here, or in your case, the people that are utilizing a public park for their own benefit, stay home. We will not miss another person coming to Florida explaining everything we are doing is wrong. It will just be one less person drinking the aquafir dry and contributing to the treated sewage being injected deep into the earth on a daily basis.

 

[CT-Rich]

I think it is time for the old film classic.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

My take at this point is that you have reached max. trolling potential. You cannot deal with reality, and want to churn up the people that want to have another bad diver, bad agency, bad training festival that we seem to get every couple of months. You do not want to acknowledge that there are hundreds of people at the bridge most days swimming and snorkeling, or that the area has been used as a confined water training setting for over 30 years. Or that the people you saw may have only had a tank on their backs 2 or 3 times before going there. Those little fish are smart enough to not let a diver sit on them, and they can dig another hole, its sand, they are not excavating a quarry. I doubt you have ever been in the position of trying to maintain control of 4 or 5 strangers underwater while making sure they can clear their masks, hoping one or more of them do not spit out their regulator and bolt to the surface, all while being paid minimum wage or close to it.

You miss the real issues that have plagued the coast in this area for 40 years. Most of the close shore reefs from Pompano to Fort Pierce are gone, either beat to crap and buried by storms or by beach "re nourishment" that has dumped a zillion cubic yards of sand along the shore so the condo owners will have a beach. And the big dredges do not give a rats ass about a blenny.

As a native Floridian, I give the same advise to everyone. This is not the same Florida it was 45 years ago before the giant mouse moved in. If you don't like the crowds, the traffic, the people that have come here, or in your case, the people that are utilizing a public park for their own benefit, stay home. We will not miss another person coming to Florida explaining everything we are doing is wrong. It will just be one less person drinking the aquafir dry and contributing to the treated sewage being injected deep into the earth on a daily basis.

Not at all trying to ruffle feathers. I get your point of view. I'm not trolling. I check back here every few days because I just don't have a ton of time. It was an honest discussion and an honest question. I apologize if what I saw and my opinion offends you. My reality is that it's the 1st time that I've witnessed large groups of divers behaving that way. It is what it is. I'm sure your a fine instructor, have a great night.

 

[ScubaWithTurk]

The problem around my area is a lot of instructors will sign off students who are terrible just to collect the money and move on , some DC's are just OW classes factory's and the instructors are exhausted, I don't expect much from the divers who had to learn with 10 people on 1 instructor.

But I do agree with you on most of it

before casting stones at current times or the past realize that its the individual and not the training agency that makes a great diver or a really bad diver

Looking at these posts and any of the others here, I have to disagree. As an instructor I have seen ill-informed or unskilled instructors. I have also seen highly skilled instructors. I believe the biggest offenders of "bad training" are the DCs themselves.

IMO, this is all comes down to the big issue of the industry, DCs needing to cert and sell gear to as many as possible to be profitable while paying instructors peanuts. They (a generalization) push instructors to knock out courses as fast as possible. Does this make the instructor bad? This instructor may hate it and want to create much better divers but if you push back on the DC you work for, the door will hit you where the good lord split you. There is a long line of people willing to do the job and likely for less money.

I had a similar conversation wtih @RainPilot and @cerich when we were in Thailand discussing the LCD (lowest common denominator)

What I would suggest is rather than blaming instructors or agencies, we look at the real culprits and put the Scubaboard brain power together to find solutions to the real problems in the industry.

I fully believe we can do better than the current model of training and DC operation that we see today but I don't have all the answers to create a solution or I would have already started my own DC and would be too busy working on revolutionizing the industry to post here.

 

[Ayisha]

...What I would suggest is rather than blaming instructors or agencies, we look at the real culprits and put the Scubaboard brain power together to find solutions to the real problems in the industry...

One thing that I find that helps that we can all do, instructor or not, is to be a good role model and mentor. Let new divers see that there's something to aspire to in their control in the water, their buoyancy, propulsion, trim, and situational awareness. They will take notice, and you might just see them try to imitate, creating an immediate difference. They might ask how to improve their skills, and that's a great opportunity to mentor them and possibly suggest an instructor that you trust.

I have mentored some divers and am mentoring someone this summer that initially took notice on an LDS trip and is now pursuing further training. It doesn't reach the masses like training, but at least it can make a difference to one or more divers at a time.

 

[Diving Dubai]

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^

 

[RayfromTX]

There are 1 returning and 3 new divers because they are following my wife and I into this great hobby. They won't ever be taught while overweighted and on their knees. They know what proper trim looks like. More will follow.

My wife and I started diving 3 years ago. We dove before we were certified and the certification course was taught by a nice guy that was a poor instructor. He taught us overweighted and kneeling even though we already knew how to dive neutrally buoyant and in trim. It was a hoot because while she kneeled I dove in trim and neutral and then when it was my turn to sink to the bottom she got neutral and practiced her fin kicks. It was pretty horrible. He actually told us that the proper trim was at a 45 degree angle.

My wife had a problem with venting her bc properly on the ascent. Rather than teach her how to do that in a timely manner he instead held her down at the safety stop for 3 minutes and then released her to cork to the surface and then certified her!! I took her back to the lake the following day and taught her what she needed to do to ascend safely. Her previous dives had been along the sloping terrain rather than direct ascents so she needed to learn it. He seemed only interested in getting her to sign all the boxes that said he had taught her everything on the list and post another successful OW student on his facebook page. At least my friends that are following us into the sport get to learn from competent instructors that we introduce them to and I feel far better about their safety in the water.

 

[Lorenzoid]

One thing that I find that helps that we can all do, instructor or not, is to be a good role model and mentor. Let new divers see that there's something to aspire to in their control in the water, their buoyancy, propulsion, trim, and situational awareness. They will take notice, and you might just see them try to imitate, creating an immediate difference. They might ask how to improve their skills, and that's a great opportunity to mentor them and possibly suggest an instructor that you trust.

I have mentored some divers and am mentoring someone this summer that initially took notice on an LDS trip and is now pursuing further training. It doesn't reach the masses like training, but at least it can make a difference to one or more divers at a time.

+1. And maybe it falls under the umbrella of situational awareness, but I'll add: good buddy skills, when applicable.

 

[happy-diver]

Sometimes I take a scooter on the boat and buzz around first dive and then second dive
I'll take it down and we'll pass it around, so a couple of years ago one of those guys that
wears and clips everything to the front of him, like those wagons selling stuff that turn up
to the goldfields, on the way back to shore says “I didn't want to use the scooter because
I've got all this stuff clipped to the front of me and it might get caught in the propeller but
next time I'll clean myself up before the second dive and give it a go.”

So I gave him a medal and then a couple of months ago we're back again and after the
second dive the guy says, “I didn't want to use the scooter because I've got all this stuff
clipped to the front of me and it might get caught in the propeller but next time I'll clean
myself up before the second dive and give it a go.”

I said, “Do you know you said that verbatim when I brought the scooter two $£%!&$£ years ago!"

So this is the same guy that has a few hundred dives all over the world likes buying gear
loves driving his gopro and always slowly swings into vertical when he stops finning and

is a really good safe comfortable really trustworthy diver a real buddy from heaven diver

So he's there videoing and I'm there doing buoyancy to the extent I can shave my body on coral

So what are we going to do with these guys

Perhaps I could reinstate the propeller guard

 

[MichaelMc]

He actually told us that the proper trim was at a 45 degree angle.

Being clearer in mainline standards that 45 degrees does not equal proper trim might be a boost. I know tbone, I believe, has described how standards of “I’ve seen in trim, and what I see now is not it” work best. But describing a bit what is clearly outside the norm might help the uninformed new students.

Like in class description blurbs, say:
“Your instructor will adjust your weights so you are within 20 degrees of horizontal. This will make exploring easy and relaxed, and help you protect the underwater environment.”

The standards say be in trim. And actually say be adjusted for trim. The biggest agency has moved that way. So the instructor is supposed to know that. Telling the student about it, and what that means, might help. Maybe in the promo material the agency controls. Might help, unlikely to hurt.