Hovering

[MikeFerrara]

Mike, it must frustrate the heck out of some people that you are right so often

I don't know but that's not my intent.

I was taught to dive and to teach the same way about every one else here was. Very little if anything I've said here is the result of any original thought on my part and I didn't invent any of it so please don't kill the messenger.

 

[MikeFerrara]

It's ashame a new instructor with agency "X" thinks (and is taught) there's only one way to teach. I was told something quite the contrary.

It's also a shame that some of the missing information isn't in the materials and that a little more isn't required by the agencies. For example, the only time a student is required to get off the bottom in OW per some standards is when they have to get neutral at some point for ANY length of time and in any position during dive 4. Walking counts the rest of the time. Why?

As far as me being included in "weighing in" on the lotus being required for a DM canidate; personally, said canidate had better be able to hold any posistion comfortably, effortlessly, joyfully, whateverfickinfully, if he wants to move on to DM. This is not a "licences to learn" card they are obtaining

You are right. It's not a license to learn they are getting. So, when I meet a DM out at a dive site who doesn't have any idea what we mean when we refer to trim (or whatever) what am I to think. He/she should know. Right? But how would they know?They should have mastered the subject. However, when we examine DM or instructor training standards we find those things missing there too. When are the diving skills of this pro tested? ok, we had to demo some OW level skills. Most of us did them just like we usually have a student do them...while kneeling. When was our diving ability tested? Shouldn't instructors and DM's be skilled divers? Are they? Show me the test that verifies it.

 

[Jasonmh]

I don't know but that's not my intent.

I was taught to dive and to teach the same way about every one else here was. Very little if anything I've said here is the result of any original thought on my part and I didn't invent any of it so please don't kill the messenger.

Oh no, definitely not killing the messenger here. Your comments are excellent and I agree with everything you said. Alot of good food for thought in your posts.

 

[scubatexastony]

Mike, I can quote your points straight from the procedure manual, and I give no defense for their shortcommings and dumming down of required real world, useful skills.

I am saying with my agency, I have the latitude to include whatever missing skills I deem necessary, along with additional knowledge requirements. Were my diving skills tested by my IT/CD? you bet your *****, but there again, it's up to the instructor trainer and CD. Show you a test?... let's go divin', dude!

It's a lot like that special teacher you may have had in school that went beyond his/her requirement, they helped you develop an enlightenment to the world ahead, yet they're few and far between. I have admired your insites for 4+ years here on the Scubaboard, and you're preaching to the choir! Rest assured there are those of us out here that still hold to old school.

I doubt you ever put your name on a DM's card until he passed not only PADI's standards, but also yours?

 

[ffdiver]

Just to let yall know, I got the hover down! I did it today "lotus position" (my instructor said doing it horizontal was fine but i choose to do it the way I was having an issue with). With the advice from posters I went down completly deflated my bc and sat down indian style on the pool floor. then just added air, controlled my breathing and kept my eyes on the pool edge to give me a referance point and bam, i kept motion-less for about 3 minutes. I didn't want to stop doing it. Thank you everybody for your advice!!!

 

[jbd]

Well Done!!!! Congrats!!!!

 

[ae3753]

Congrats!

 

[voop]

Guys,the standard may be just to hover to get certified,but he's seeking pro level and at the IE,if he draws that skill,they will expect it that way,doesn't mater if the standards say so or not. An instructor is expected to be able to not only perform the skill but be able to master and teach the skill.

When was position added to the Padi std's for the hovering skill for the IE? I recall years back in my own IE, where we [the candidates] seemed to make a point out of hovering each in our own favorite position: buddah, horizontal, vertical, dead-turtle [that guy didn't do it intentionally, but just went with it] - and a goof even did it vertical but head down....and all were OK with the examiner. (Ok, we were a funny bunch...)

I do not have the exact text of the standards in front of me, but IIRC they state: "Hover motionless without finning or sculling for 30 seconds". Dead-turtle may not be elegant and how you should show it to students, but it would fulfill the standards.

 

[voop]

Why do you need to be in a lotus position to learn about the efefcts of buoyancy and breathing? Why not assume a useful position, like horizontal?

To quote an IDCS who worked with us during my IDC: "If you can hover in one position, you can hover in all positions - now, show me". He was, of course, right: dead-turtle or horizontal or lotus isn't a hovering/bouyancy issue, it's a trim/balance/equipment-issue.

I tend to let my students start hovering in whatever position they find natural, then start working on the other things to get them horizontal. Done right, it's actually fun to exercise this, both for the instructor and (judging by the grins after a 2h poolthing playing with this) the students.

 

[voop]

My problem is not being nuetral its just I don't think my legs bend that way. Im young yes, but my legs still don't care. I think I might try talking to my instructor about doing it in a diff position since that just might be impossible for me. I have very good control underwater, I think its just a horrible position.

I can on a good day get into a full lotus position when in my undies. There's no way in **** I can do so when clad in a 5mm neophrene drysuit.