How Angry Should I Be at this Instructor?

[Rhone Man]

I'd be at least medium pissed. You are an experienced firefighter, and you dealt with it fine. But if this had happened to my teenage son, I would definitely not let it lie.

There is a "hey, sh!t goes sideways from time to time" aspect to this. But if you are going to take a group of students into reasonably challenging circumstances where you have to know that there is a good chance of silt-out, you gotta plan and prep people for that eventuality.

Nothing bad happened here. But your story is similar to the start of a lot of stories that do not end quite so happily.

 

[tbeck3579]

I think I would have surfaced if I were cold -- I'm a wimp hehehe

 

[Dizzi Lizzi]

I had a situation where I took a specialty class and it did not even come close to what I expected from the book. I went home and fumed a bit and felt it was a wasted day--well, it was, but any day underwater is a good day when you can have a beer afterward Anyway, I went and spoke to the instructor re what I expected and where I felt I was let down. I used the padi manual to illustrate. He understood, and agreed. Of course we are doing it over, until I feel I have met the goals of the class. He told me as many dives as it takes. For me this was more about speaking up than complaining, there is a difference.

 

[Diver0001]

Fair point made with regard to "you are a certified diver and responsible for yourself." The conflict for me was that my last instruction from him was to stay where I was, so I wanted to follow that instruction. I think in future incidents I will be less likely to give that much weight to my instructions and decide that thinking for myself will take priority much sooner.

Every dive and ESPECIALLY during training dives we explicitly brief a "lost buddy" protocol.

The standard protocol that PADI teaches is to search, once separated, for 1 minute and then surface. I discuss this at length in the theory and we actually practice searching in the pool (keeping track of time and then surfacing after a minute).

During training dives, what I tell my students to do if they find themselves alone is to wait where they are for 1 minute and then surface.

The reason I brief it this way is for practical reasons. It's because *I* know every grain of sand at the sites where we train and students are often seeing those sites for the first time. So when I realize a student is unaccounted for (thankfully this very seldom happens) I know EXACTLY where I saw them last. Chances will be 99% that they are just outside visual range (we can have horrible viz) so I can find them almost immediately as long as they stop moving.

The fact that your instructor didn't tell you something alone these lines is why I said he/she was being sloppy.

The other thing that made me think, "sloppy", is that he allowed you (or even TOLD you) to settle on your knees. There is a paradigm shift happening in scuba training and it's becoming less and less common/acceptable to put students on the knees at any time. In my own case the my students only do a couple of skills in the entire OW course on the bottom of the pool and they don't touch the bottom again after the second lesson in the pool. To me, putting a student who was doing a drysuit course on their knees would be completely unthinkable.

I triggered on that for professional reasons but the safety issue of not briefing a lost-buddy protocol is a much bigger deal to me.

I mentioned the firefighting thing to illustrate that I'm used to being in zero visibility situations. I'm also trained to NEVER leave my team. Ever. Ever.......EVER. If separated, the priority is to re-assemble the team, not fight the fire.

It is similar in diving, but the ocean is very big if you don't know where to look so reassembling the team happens on the surface.

Also, and perhaps most importantly, if you ever are separated from the team, you STAY PUT and let them find you (unless in immediate danger). I guess that muscle memory kicked in yesterday.

If everyone stays put then nobody will find anybody. Someone has to be looking. That's why I said I brief things they way I do during check out dives.

R..

 

[Rred]

Todd-
I would say "It depends."
First of all, yes, you are entitled to be pissed that the instructor said "STAY" and then FORGOT ABOUT YOU. This is how boats leave divers adrift at sea. We all get distracted--but as you may be aware, in some jobs that cannot be allowed to happen. The instructor needs to know that because of HIS ACTIONS, you could have simply stayed down there and run out of air. And someone who isn't as smart, very well might.

If this is the OW dive that ends a class...get your cert and then bring it up. The fact that you went down on your knees means someone also needs to go over buoyancy control with you, even and especially if this was the conclusion of a class. Same thing with the cold/not enough air issue.

If this instructor is working for a shop, it might be worth (politely) discussing with the shop owner the fact that your instructor made a number of potentially dangerous errors, and that they really should have a different AND COMPETENT instructor repeat the course with you, or at least spend an hour or two making sure nothing else has been missed.

Who knows, the shop owner may have had other complaints or issues with that instructor. At least they should be aware that instructor needs to pay more attention to business. Things missed or glossed over in training, yeah, that can be just "**** happens". But telling a student to stay put on the bottom, and then surfacing and forgetting he's down there?

Sorry, no, that kind of mindlessness deserves a damned good explanation.

 

[TMHeimer]

I agree with most. You should've ascended as per protocol, or maybe a little longer since he said to stay put, but not 14 minutes. Also agree separation should've been discussed with the group, and that kicking up silt shouldn't happen, especially with certified divers--all be it drysuit diving is something quite different (I wouldn't know from experience). Out of curiosity-- How many in the class? So much silt kicked up that it was impossible for all to swim out of it to see each other (I've heard of that happening in caves)? I often dive in silty areas of bays here and am usually within 2-3 feet (depending on viz) off the bottom hunting shells. Diving solo I don't worry about all the silt I kick up since nobody else is there and I can use it to see where I've been--
"Natural Silt Navigation" (new Specialty?). But it's never so bad that I couldn't swim through it for 5-6 feet to the other side. But I know types of silt vary. I know stuff happens. It's easy to be an armchair quarterback.

 

[Schwob]

How do you guys feel about a 1:4 ratio for the first OW of the drysuit class. I happened to be lucky as in my recently taken class there were only two students. But last year, during wreck class, I watched a guy in a drysuit wrap himself up in a wreck line. Feed up, trying to get upright, bouncing of the (in places sharp) walls inside the wreck. He was a graduated drysuit diver. No biggy because nothing happened, when he got tired enough I dared to calm him down and unwrap him, sat him down and when he was calm brought him out where the unofficial spotter (maybe not DM?) was. No idea why. That guy brought him up. By that time the instructor was back from his laying out the wreck line demo. There was one more student with us (1:3 in the wreck), who also helped unwrapping. The drysuit diver had a previous minor incident on the previous dive BTW. (No penetration). So after that I had a kind word with the troubled diver and came to think he is a bit more hopeful than cluefull and kindly let him know my concern for his live and pleaded with him to take this whole thing slower, step by step, maybe continue wreck in a wetsuit until he is really stable in a drysuit.
Then I had a still word with the instructor, still kindly but less so, and told him what I think and used him why he took that guy inside a wreck and had him follow the line he laid... maybe he had the line tied off and did not feel the commotion, but considering there were at least 2 or three wraps around the guy, I don't think so. Anyway, I let him know what I thought about how he did it... friendly...

And I thought about choosing dive partners AND instructors more carefully... ...why pay to deal with an accident waiting to happen...
And wondered about student to instructor or instructor + DM ratios.

All the above just going towards explaining why I ask. Sorry. But it may be quite shorter than the flaming I might get if I don't explain while I dare asking, possibly questioning instructor wisdom...

So, ignoring the leaving a guy alone forever really (as the instructor was on the boat aparrently) and instructing him to stay put, ignoring that (hard, I know):
What is the instructor thinking here on SB on the 1:4 ratio w/o DM here, for this dive, where one sort of could expect some floaty feet and maybe even once in a while a runaway ascent?
Normal and within guidelines ... or?

 

[tbeck3579]

Heimer you know much much more about diving than I ever will -- you are a Divemaster and I can only dream about the amount of time you have spent underwater. I'm envious. My statements below are more of a question format to a very experienced diver such as yourself. I'm here to learn from people like you, not make judgments.

"Out of curiosity-- How many in the class?"
I believe he said 4 -- so each should have had a "buddy" according to PADI?

"Diving solo I don't worry about all the silt I kick up since nobody else is there and I can use it to see where I've been--"
See above - ???

"'Natural Silt Navigation' (new Specialty?)".
Navigation is one of 2 required specialties for the Advanced PADI?? I would hope they teach "zero visibility" skills??

 

[Bogtrotter]

You were left alone for a quarter of an hour on your knees on the lake bottom so I think you have good reason to be angry. That said I do echo other sentiments, you should have followed standard dive protocol long before it got to 14mins. Is it possible your instructor thought your buddy was with you? Also, why were you on your knees on a silty bottom? Sounds a bit of a cluster, as a lot of classes and group insta-buddy situations can be. Pre-dive communication seems to be a factor here too, I would definitely talk to the instructor and bring up your concerns. Keep in mind that you should have long aborted the dive, for all you knew he could have been dealing with an urgent situation- that is basic scuba knowledge too.

 

[Patoux01]

Also, why were you on your knees?

Corrected that for you.