How do I improve my air consumption?

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Here we go again,

Before you spend the big bucks on a computer, check out either http://www.divecochran.com or http://www.mcochran.com they make a great line of computers and if all of you check it out I'm sure you'll come to the same conclusion I did. Also they will compare their computers with any on the market & tell you what it will and what it won't do. Do any of the others do that?
Check it out, you won't be sorry.
Their computers aren't affected by the motor frequiencies or strobes.
 
Don,
I was with you until you mentioned the "C" word. I've heard nothing but bad about Cochran computers. In fact I was working the booth across from Cochran at DEMA last year and had a chance to ask about some of the dependancy issues I've heard about.... To make a long story short, I felt no better about the brand than before I talked to him.

I guess what you have to ask yourself is, "would you give one to a loved one as a present?". I don't mean to flame anyone here, it's just.... well 95% of the dive professionals I know agree with me here.... you can do much better than Cochran.
 
Perhaps you should make your short story long, 95% of the dive professionals I know have nothing but good reviews of it. Perhaps you can tell me of your bad experience or your friends bad experiences to which you can speak of first hand. I am speaking of the Cochran Gemini Plus. Not sure which one you are talking about.
It's not that I'm "flaming" any other computer on the market, but I studied long and hard before making my purchase. And by the way guess who's source code UWATEC used to model theirs after?

 
Well, two things. First I'm still part of the scuba community and hear things that can't and shouldn't be 'advertised'. Second this could potentially bite some poor guy in the butt at Cochran.

I've had many dive charter skippers, Instructors even a couple of Instructor trainers call the product crap. Have I had any experience first hand? No. Because I respect the opinions of the other professionals around me.

If you're happy with your computer, congradulations. It won't be part of my gear bag, and if I have any say-so in the matter I won't in good conscious let a friend buy one either.
 
Mario,
First let me say that I value your comments on most topics because of the experience that you obviously have & I'm always ready to learn from someone who has more than I.

BUT in this case, I've asked you for specifics & you've failed to give me any. The reasons you have given are to say the least vague. This rates right up there with "I heard this from a friend of a firend who knows somebody that knew somebody that used to work there".

I've invited you to take this private, as I am very interested in what you have to say & your proof. I sent you a PRIVATE MESSAGE & you failed to respond.

If I gave an opinion of "Product D" & said it was "crap" you would want to know what I based my opinion on.

This time I cannot value your comment as you have given no basis for your opinion other than heresay.

You have to be careful of what you say on a forum like this, as hundreds of people read & take advise, especially if you have an instructors certification as you do, also
you have to be able to substantiate your accusations in order to be credible. In this case you have let me down.

You can e-mail me if you want to continue this discussion, if not then I will just consider this your uninformed biased opinion.


Don

 
Sorry I can't help you out with the info you seem to want so badly. But when I'm asked to keep something confidential or if some info is trusted to me... I keep my word.

Just becasue I can't name names and 'substantiate' my claims doesn't make them less true. Remeber I have nothing to gain by flaming any particular brand(s), I'm not a salesman. I'll just stand my ground by saying my friends and family know me well enough to trust my word. Since you are neither, I understand your lack of trust. Perhaps we should just drop the issue here?
 
Mario,
Perhaps we should just agree to disagree & drop the issue.
Maybe at a later date.
Hope there are no hard feelings.

Don
 
Don,

Just do a DejaNews search. rec.scuba and rec.scuba.equipment have many negative reports (and some positive ones) on the Cochran computers.

Ralph
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Not trying to raise a dead dog here, I wanted to ask if the non-positive statements that you have all heard were of a "technical" or "mechanical" nature?

What I mean is are the reports youve heard something like, "The systems are built from Fisher Price(tm) used plastic toaster ovens" or more like "The calculations made are based on Martian abstract art rather than math" ...

The only reason I ask is that it is very possible that our own Dr DECO could possibly shed some light here or ya never know, we could actually HELP a company improve for the betterment of the Industry and individual saftey rather than continue in this setting up boundry lines of verbal war.

Don't think for a minute that there is no "Power in the People". If enough people are crying that "The sky is falling" it might be time to "look up". If we can get some serious and honest dialog going on subjects like this, I will personally do all I can to invite, or rather publically Challenge change from a company. Besides, I cant think of any company that wouldn't love to get serious feedback based on factual findings. All too often, what many people feel is fact, has its foundations based on another companies Flames or Claims.

=-)

 
Dear Readers:

As far as the discussion of which computer is best, Dr. Deco cannot really provide much assistance since it appears that much of this discussion is centered on hardware. At NASA [at least in the area in which I work], we do not deal with diving and thus have not had any occasion to deal with aspects of dive computers. Our research is devoted to altitude problems. Thus what I am saying is really only directed at the underlying, theoretical aspects of this science (or is it really an art?).

As readers of this BB will know, I have treated decompression as a two-part problem:
  • gas tensions, and
  • nucleation.

As indicated in other postings under “Ask Dr. Deco,” dive computers only deal with the first aspect, since this controls the major determinant of decompression sickness, that is, the dose of dissolved inert gas (generally nitrogen). However, gas bubble formation is always a possibility, although in the usual case, recreational diving employs such small supersaturations that gas phase (= bubble) grow is negligible.

Many developers of dive computers will tell you publicly that their devices contain algorithms that are different from the standard Haldanian types. While this is well and good, my only question is, where can I see the data upon which this is based? The only extensive test series that was made of recreational dive schedules was that performed by Diving Science and Technology (DSAT) for the Recreational Dive Planner and The Wheel of PADI. This was then published in a booklet (that believe is still available)[Hamilton, RW, RE Rodgers, MR Powell, and RD Vann. Development And Validation Of No-stop Decompression Procedures For Recreational Diving. Diving Science and Technology. (pp. 78 + appendix). February 28, (1994).

This is not to say that others may have not used those tests for their devices (Dr. John Lewis did for Oceanic DCs) or that a different database was not assembled and analyzed (as Dr. Bruce Weinke did for his Reduced Gradient Bubble Model). The algorithms are not always given, although all can be derived by reverse analysis if one so desired.

What is important to remember is that all of these models are using “paper bubbles” - - bubbles that may not exist with the designated properties. Some devices claim that they will adjust the dive program for gas bubbles that form and interfere with gas elimination. I personally have not seen any evidence for or against this concept, and I have never seen any data. Thus, when this is advertised as a plus, I must simply say that they are adding a total hypothesis that this is actually occurring. That a degree of conservatism has been added is, in my opinion, a good idea.

BUT, is there any laboratory substantiation for this? In most cases, I do not believe there is any strong foundation for the superiority of the algorithm. The individual features of the dive computer (ability to down load dive profiles, altitude diving, etc.)is a different matter.
:nono:
With respect to nucleation, the diver must always remember that he or she can control what is not in the dive computer,viz, tissue nucleation. The following should be observed after the dive:

  • [*] take the safety stop and move your arms and legs in the water;
    [*] do not climb from the water with full gear;
    [*] do not lift tanks and heavy objects when on the surface;
    [*] move your limbs and do not lie down or sleep;

_______________
[sp]Michael Powell, PhD “Dr. Deco”

[Edited by Dr Deco on 11-14-2000 at 02:19 PM]
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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