How do you feel about upside down trim pockets on waist for BP/W ballast solution?

[BRT]

Have to admit, 75 mins is a long rec dive in my waters (PNW as well, Victoria BC)......brrrr
My deco dives are longer but I've got a lot more gas and therefore a thicker undergarment.......hey, maybe I could use that for my rec dives......just add more lead.......you might be on to something.


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How much combined lead and backplate weight do you deco dive with? I understand that you are carrying extra tanks, but assume you weight yourself for those tanks to become near empty and still be able to hold a stop without freezing? Do you use a suit heater?

After that dive we floated slowly back in the current. Hands cold but core warm.

---------- Post added April 25th, 2015 at 08:49 PM ----------

To me, "shrink wrap" implies all the air volume is eliminated and that is not going to happen (except in the small area under your weight). Sure, you may experience squeeze, severe with enough pressure, but that will take quite a bit of pressure differential.

When you wear just a bathing suit in a swimming pool (FW), are you able to exhale and descend without swimming down? What is the buoyancy of your lavacore suit. I am also 5'11" and 225 to 230 (some say fat) and would need 12 to 14 lb in a 3mm suit in SW.

I've never tossed it in to see if a Lavacore suit sinks or floats when it is really wet but it doesn't have much buoyancy. I went to it hoping to drop more weight but I think for me I can only use about 3 lb less lead than with my full 3 mil. I do like the lack of buoyancy change with depth. Bouyancy adjustments just amount to letting a little air out as you use up your tank. I use 14-16lb with the Lavacore and 16-18 with a full 3 mil.

---------- Post added April 25th, 2015 at 08:54 PM ----------

To me, "shrink wrap" implies all the air volume is eliminated and that is not going to happen (except in the small area under your weight). Sure, you may experience squeeze, severe with enough pressure, but that will take quite a bit of pressure differential.

When you wear just a bathing suit in a swimming pool (FW), are you able to exhale and descend without swimming down? What is the buoyancy of your lavacore suit. I am also 5'11" and 225 to 230 (some say fat) and would need 12 to 14 lb in a 3mm suit in SW.

I've never tossed it in to see if a Lavacore suit sinks or floats when it is really wet but it doesn't have much buoyancy. I went to it hoping to drop more weight but I think for me I can only use about 3 lb less lead than with my full 3 mil. I do like the lack of buoyancy change with depth. Bouyancy adjustments just amount to letting a little air out as you use up your tank. I use 14-16lb with the Lavacore and 16-18 with a full 3 mil.

 

[decompression]

Zero lead, backplate is -6, regs -4, manifold -4, tanks 2xsteel 120's, then bottles any combo of; 1 or 2 Al 40's, 1-2 Al 80's. Gas is air/trimix/nitrox/O2. Average profiles are around 90 min. No heated vest, but dry gloves (rec dives I'll use wet sometimes), thicker hood, argon for suit. Light can be -4. With those profiles I usually have considerable gas reserves, even the deco and stage bottles. I also have an AL plate I use sometimes. I should add that total neg (no gas) is usually 30lbs....my suit/gear is +26. I change my gear according to dive profile/needs and balanced rig calcs.


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[cool_hardware52]

How much combined lead and backplate weight do you deco dive with?

I've done many 90-120 minute dives with a lightweight back plate (~2 lbs for the plate and harness), 4 lbs tail weight, ~4 lbs of bands and manifolds, 4 lbs of dual regs, 1 lbs of can light, and ~4 lbs of empty steel doubles. About 19 ~20 lbs of total ballast.

In a drysuit, in water that's middle to high 50's on the surface and maybe 40's at depth. Shell Suit with medium to thicker undies. We almost always use scooters.

I also don't get cold easily. I'll wear wet gloves when everybody else is wearing dry gloves etc. None of which makes me a "hero" or makes any of my teammates using more insulation and ballast lesser divers.

People do of course vary in cold tolerance.

OTOH, ~54 lbs of ballast would make me double check my actual suit buoyancy.


Tobin

 

[BRT]

I've done many 90-120 minute dives with a lightweight back plate (~2 lbs for the plate and harness), 4 lbs tail weight, ~4 lbs of bands and manifolds, 4 lbs of dual regs, 1 lbs of can light, and ~4 lbs of empty steel doubles. About 19 ~20 lbs of total ballast.

In a drysuit, in water that's middle to high 50's on the surface and maybe 40's at depth. Shell Suit with medium to thicker undies. We almost always use scooters.

I also don't get cold easily. I'll wear wet gloves when everybody else is wearing dry gloves etc. None of which makes me a "hero" or makes any of my teammates using more insulation and ballast lesser divers.

People do of course vary in cold tolerance.

OTOH, ~54 lbs of ballast would make me double check my actual suit buoyancy.


Tobin

So can you dive an AL80 in a 3 mil with no lead?

 

[cool_hardware52]

So can you dive an AL80 in a 3 mil with no lead?

Not sure how you made that leap. The specs I provided in my last post implies my drysuit with medium undies is about +20 lbs. This compares well with the values I see when I test my suit as described in this thread.

In a 3mm suit and buoyant tank a diver that is neutral in their birthday suit should be able to find all the ballast they need in their backplate, harness and regulator.

Typical 3mm suit is 3-5 lbs positive, and an empty al 80 is +4. That means a diver that starts out neutral needs about 8 lbs of ballast to sink their suit and keep an empty al 80 under at the end of the dive.

It's very very common for reasonably fit folks to dive in warm water with 3mm suits and al 80's using nothing more than their Plate, harness and reg for ballast.

Tobin

 

[gbf]

It's very very common for reasonably fit folks to dive in warm water with 3mm suits and al 80's using nothing more than their Plate, harness and reg for ballast.

Tobin

I do it all the time.

Here's my negative stuff: Medium DSS SS plate, Zeagle FH6 (it's pretty heavy), 3-4 large stainless bolt snaps, a couple of drings+slides, spool, a slightly negative light.

My positive stuff: Torus 17, SMB, 3mm henderson suit+5mm booties.

At end of dive I'm slightly negative-to-neutral at SS.

I figure my gopro and other miscellany net out to neutral, or pretty close.

Here's my eldest daughter - Tobin, you should recognize the stuff in these pics. She wears 3mm and 4 lbs in trim pockets, and a T26. She's 5'2" and has womanly features that I don't have. I think this was early dive, about 12 ft deep.



And my SIL on his 4th non-class dive ever, I think - he uses a long plate + T26 and no lead - and he's 6'5" and full-grown. This was end of dive, maybe 20-25'.

 

[BRT]

Not sure how you made that leap. The specs I provided in my last post implies my drysuit with medium undies is about +20 lbs. This compares well with the values I see when I test my suit as described in this thread.

In a 3mm suit and buoyant tank a diver that is neutral in their birthday suit should be able to find all the ballast they need in their backplate, harness and regulator.

Typical 3mm suit is 3-5 lbs positive, and an empty al 80 is +4. That means a diver that starts out neutral needs about 8 lbs of ballast to sink their suit and keep an empty al 80 under at the end of the dive.

It's very very common for reasonably fit folks to dive in warm water with 3mm suits and al 80's using nothing more than their Plate, harness and reg for ballast.

Tobin

I guess I'm jealous. In a drysuit the undies and air are highly variable but in the 3 mil or the Lavacore that variability is gone. The only way I could go with 8 lb would be to empty my lungs and take little sippy breaths. No, I don't think that would do it. Maybe down to 12 lb or so. Even the most experienced divers I know, the fishermen I go with in Mexico, wear more than 8 lb and they wear no bcd and no neoprene and carry steel stringers and hooks and spearguns.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I guess I'm jealous. In a drysuit the undies and air are highly variable but in the 3 mil or the Lavacore that variability is gone. The only way I could go with 8 lb would be to empty my lungs and take little sippy breaths. No, I don't think that would do it. Maybe down to 12 lb or so. Even the most experienced divers I know, the fishermen I go with in Mexico, wear more than 8 lb and they wear no bcd and no neoprene and carry steel stringers and hooks and spearguns.

If you start with a neutral diver (most of us are pretty close to neutral in our birthday suit, we are after all mostly salt water) and add no neoprene and no inherently buoyant BCD, but do add negative regulators etc. it's hard to see where anywhere 12 lbs of ballast is needed. It's just physics.

Tobin

 

[gcarter]

FWIW, I did a session in the pool the other night with a 6lb plate in a 3/2 full suit and an AL80. I was over weighted. Hared pressed to see where I should need more than a copuple of pounds at most in salt with the same config.

 

[cool_hardware52]

I guess I'm jealous. In a drysuit the undies and air are highly variable but in the 3 mil or the Lavacore that variability is gone. The only way I could go with 8 lb would be to empty my lungs and take little sippy breaths. No, I don't think that would do it. Maybe down to 12 lb or so. Even the most experienced divers I know, the fishermen I go with in Mexico, wear more than 8 lb and they wear no bcd and no neoprene and carry steel stringers and hooks and spearguns.

If I threw you into the Sea of Cortez in your swimsuit and handed you 12 lbs of ballast how long could you tread water?

Tobin