How happy are you with today's level of Diver Education?

[Web Monkey]

I see your point and it is well taken.However,I am also reminded of an old joke.I'm sure most have also heard the one about the oldster who "walked 20 miles to and from school,in the snow,bare foot,and uphill both ways" claiming that the kids now have it easy.

That wasn't my point at all. I have no idea how you were trained and I'm not saying that training in "the good old days" was better than yours because I don't know what kind of training you had.

My point was that you have no idea either, since you (and all other new OW divers) have nothing to compare their OW class to.

Terry

 

[DaleC]

How can I blame the agency or curriculum for the buddy I agree to dive with?

Then what does certification mean? If they act like a Bozo I blame them but if they lack basic skill I blame the instructor who certified them as having the skill.

 

[mase]

Possibly it is not that the skills taught are inadequate but the fact that everyone that takes the courses pass regardless if they have learned the skills or not. You pay = you pass. Congratulations, you're a diver and you have an OW card to prove it.

 

[Diver0001]

Possibly it is not that the skills taught are inadequate but the fact that everyone that takes the courses pass regardless if they have learned the skills or not. You pay = you pass. Congratulations, you're a diver and you have an OW card to prove it.

Actually, that's not true.

Most agency's courses are performanced based. The instructor can't refuse to certify you if you can demonstrate competence in all of the performance requirements, but the instructor isn't allowed to "pass" you if you can't, either.

What actually happens more often than you might think is that people "give up" as opposed to "fail".

R..

 

[grazie42]

My OW-course was 5 days (8-16 or so) and cost about 400$ (about 10 yrs ago).
That was pretty close to the maximum amount of resources I was prepared to spend to learn how to dive.

I had a good instructor, not great but good.

I came out of that class with "bad" bouyancy but with the ability to plan and execute a dive on my own (proved it the weekend after). A great instructor(or program) or a more benign enviroment would propably have been able to leave me with good bouyancy in that time as well.

I dont think its the quantity but the quality that is the issue with most programs...at least you could get a lot more quality from the same quantity by improving the process and the teaching. IMO.

 

[DCBC]

I dont think its the quantity but the quality that is the issue with most programs...

I think that quality it based upon the finished product. If the diver is safe, competent to look after his buddy (not just himself) and dive unsupervised, you're there. If this takes 3 days, 3 weeks or 3 months, I don't really care, as long as you accomplished the goal before giving him the card.

My concern is not how the person is instructed, or how long the instruction takes, but that the goal is accomplished. If someone dies because of improper instruction and people have, either the diving industry has to do something or it's a matter of time before government does.

Morally and ethically, the process of certifying divers prematurely has to stop. The industry has to step-up it's quality control and standards across-the-board.

If a diver's certified who cannot dive safely, is incompetent to look after his buddy or dive unsupervised, where's the quality?

 

[Walter]

The instructor can't refuse to certify you if you can demonstrate competence in all of the performance requirements

Actually, that's not universally true. It is true with PADI, but it's not true with SEI or NAUI. I don't know how other agencies fall on this point.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

I had a new student on scuba for the first time tonight. We spent last week on swim tests(1/2 hour) and skin diving and snorkeling skills(1 1/2 hours). This evening at the end of two hours he was swimming around in fair trim, in midwater, clearing his mask, and recovering his reg while swimming. We spent the first 1/2 of the class working on buoyancy skills and performing mask clear, reg recovery, and weightbelt off and on while horizontal and neutral. He did touch bottom on 4 of the 7 times I had him remove and replace the belt. Next week he'll do better I'm sure. By week 7 I'm confident he'll be swimming and in the pool have his buoyancy changes come from breath control as opposed to using the power inflator to any real degree.

It was not difficult to get him to this point the first night on scuba. It did require repetition, surfacing to give advice and explain how he could improve just a bit more each time, and the WILLINGNESS to work for what he wants. I'm willing to work as hard as I can to educate a competent, skilled, and safe diver. What I will not do is waste time with someone who just wants to "get by" and learn "just enough". My time is too valuable for that. I would have to say that I am satisfied with the level of diver training I see in a few cases. Unfortunately those cases are the exception. This weekend I used two OW classes to illustrate to an AOW student the lack of training that lets new people ( sorry I can't call them divers) "get by". Two classes, two different instructors, 6 and 8 students. One had a DM the first day both the second. No one was clearly buddied up. The dive times were around 20 minutes. I know as we were doing 45-60 minute dives and they were getting 2 in to one of ours.

There was no buoyancy control to speak of among them. They were being led down and on their tours in single file with 4-8 feet between divers. Vis was 3-10 feet with 15 thrown in here and there. I saw students on 3 occasions surface alone and had no idea where the instructor or rest of the group was. Granted it was not ideal with 35 degree air temps on Sat and 2 inches of fresh wet snow on Sun, but the water was 71-74 degrees. I could not watch the weight checks for more than a minute. They were the "here's 25 lbs, see if you sink" variety. And yet every one of them got a card. I would have still had them in the pool. Am I satisfied with this? Hell no, and anyone who is should be ashamed!

 

[vladimir]

.....

 

[Slonda828]

I had a new student on scuba for the first time tonight. We spent last week on swim tests(1/2 hour) and skin diving and snorkeling skills(1 1/2 hours). This evening at the end of two hours he was swimming around in fair trim, in midwater, clearing his mask, and recovering his reg while swimming. We spent the first 1/2 of the class working on buoyancy skills and performing mask clear, reg recovery, and weightbelt off and on while horizontal and neutral. He did touch bottom on 4 of the 7 times I had him remove and replace the belt. Next week he'll do better I'm sure. By week 7 I'm confident he'll be swimming and in the pool have his buoyancy changes come from breath control as opposed to using the power inflator to any real degree.

It was not difficult to get him to this point the first night on scuba. It did require repetition, surfacing to give advice and explain how he could improve just a bit more each time, and the WILLINGNESS to work for what he wants. I'm willing to work as hard as I can to educate a competent, skilled, and safe diver. What I will not do is waste time with someone who just wants to "get by" and learn "just enough". My time is too valuable for that. I would have to say that I am satisfied with the level of diver training I see in a few cases. Unfortunately those cases are the exception. This weekend I used two OW classes to illustrate to an AOW student the lack of training that lets new people ( sorry I can't call them divers) "get by". Two classes, two different instructors, 6 and 8 students. One had a DM the first day both the second. No one was clearly buddied up. The dive times were around 20 minutes. I know as we were doing 45-60 minute dives and they were getting 2 in to one of ours.

There was no buoyancy control to speak of among them. They were being led down and on their tours in single file with 4-8 feet between divers. Vis was 3-10 feet with 15 thrown in here and there. I saw students on 3 occasions surface alone and had no idea where the instructor or rest of the group was. Granted it was not ideal with 35 degree air temps on Sat and 2 inches of fresh wet snow on Sun, but the water was 71-74 degrees. I could not watch the weight checks for more than a minute. They were the "here's 25 lbs, see if you sink" variety. And yet every one of them got a card. I would have still had them in the pool. Am I satisfied with this? Hell no, and anyone who is should be ashamed!

I wish that I would have taken my open water training from someone like you! If nobody else has said it lately, keep rocking man! Good instructors are hard to find. If more people were like you I would probably pony up the money for the IE myself.