How many dives did you have when you did AOW

[HowardE]

I've read the Ginnie Springs website. I'm ready for any Cave in the world. Give me a week to read shadow divers and we can go dive the doria if you'd like...

That's a lame comparison. Cave diving vs. Rescue diver are 2 different worlds. One can make a rescue without being certified as such. One can not dive in most caves without being certified for cave diving. If you're not a certified Rescue diver would you risk almost certain death by attempting to rescue someone? I think not. Would your risk of death be more likely if you entered a cave without proper training?

 

[HowardE]

Define REAL Advanced class, and how can one skip AOW? I think NAUI takes a different approach than PADI, but I *think* that most (all?) agencies incorporate the concept of AOW in the training, and will require it at some point to go forward past rescue.

Many of the specialties that PADI (for example) can cover are valuable. I don't think anyone will argue that Buoyancy control, or Navigation for example are worthless concepts even if some PADI specialties are fluff.

I guess if one acknowledges that Navigation is worthwhile, the next step is to find an instructor that teaches valuable lessons, and thinks outside of the box.

It's not that they are worthless concepts... they can all be acquired skills with or without instruction. Navigation is as simple as reading a compass and recognizing landmarks. Buoyancy is nothing more than practice makes perfect.

 

[boulderjohn]

It's not that they are worthless concepts... they can all be acquired skills with or without instruction. Navigation is as simple as reading a compass and recognizing landmarks. Buoyancy is nothing more than practice makes perfect.

Having dived with you, Howarde, I know that your experience has been good to you. I assure you that for a lot of people, the phrase "as simple as reading a compass" comes across as a joke, kind of like "as simple as brain surgery."

At the end of September, I had the luxury of working with students for more than the standard 4 dives. We did at least a little of it on almost every dive. Even when we were done with the training dives and just supposedly diving for fun, I had them doing navigation exercises with their compasses--essentially getting us back to the boat. I figured it was just more practice. After the 7th dive, one of them exclaimed that she finally fully understood how to do it--and she was a highly educated and intelligent professional.

 

[HowardE]

Having dived with you, Howarde, I know that your experience has been good to you. I assure you that for a lot of people, the phrase "as simple as reading a compass" comes across as a joke, kind of like "as simple as brain surgery."

At the end of September, I had the luxury of working with students for more than the standard 4 dives. We did at least a little of it on almost every dive. Even when we were done with the training dives and just supposedly diving for fun, I had them doing navigation exercises with their compasses--essentially getting us back to the boat. I figured it was just more practice. After the 7th dive, one of them exclaimed that she finally fully understood how to do it--and she was a highly educated and intelligent professional.

I understand that it doesn't come natrually to everyone, but navigation is not a skill that is unique to diving. One could just as easily practice their navigation skills in their backyard, or in a park with a compass. It's the same. No need to take a course in navigation... right?

 

[boulderjohn]

I understand that it doesn't come natrually to everyone, but navigation is not a skill that is unique to diving. One could just as easily practice their navigation skills in their backyard, or in a park with a compass. It's the same. No need to take a course in navigation... right?

Hand a compass to someone and tell them to go in the backyard and learn how to use it. Make sure you don't tell them how to do it--let them figure it out on their own.

 

[TimAZ]

Hand a compass to someone and tell them to go in the backyard and learn how to use it. Make sure you don't tell them how to do it--let them figure it out on their own.

Or put them in a forest at night with a light source that will only let them see 50' (or 100 - pick your vis). I've been very good at land nav since I was a kid, but u/w nav came slow to me. There are just as many skills unique to u/w nav as there are skills to land nav that have limited or little application diving.

BTW - 236 dives before AOW

 

[Gr8fldiver]

I had 1000s of dives when I got mine. I wouldn't have bothered at all if some of the ops in the Keys didn't start giving me a hassle about diving the wrecks down there. AOW is a perfect example of Put Another Dollar In. The only thing that makes anyone an "advanced" diver is diving.

 

[The Horn]

Hand a compass to someone and tell them to go in the backyard and learn how to use it. Make sure you don't tell them how to do it--let them figure it out on their own.

If they didn't pay attention in grade school they may have some problems but, given time, you would be surprised at what people can figure out.

Would you not agree, however, that navigation should be an OW skill.

I can see that for the $$ the markets can put out a fluff dive course for someone on vacation. "here, I'll hold your hand and show you a new world"

Now your training people and giving them the ability to explore with crap skills and low training and saying "hey, come back and we'll show you really how to do it" so they do and realise that the AOW is crap so you say "ya, but now you can take rescue"

I say blah blah blah no thanks

I'm glad I had old school trianing and that I can read and comprehend.

PADI, Naui etc (knock Knock wake up call) your training is falling apart.....

I received a letter to comment on my training from PADI. What a piece of toilet paper. They said they wanted to "get my opinion" on the course and had a brief survey. the survey was 8 questions or so asking if I stayed above 100 feet, did I read the manual, did my instructor check and review my sheets.....that was about it.

What a crock, where are the questions like: how was the program, how was the manual, was instruction clear, what did you gain, what would you like to see etc...

My instruction was fine and I had very little trouble on or with the course other than it was lacking. I totally blame PADI and the dive industry. The "adventures manual" does not even apply to my area of the world.

Hopefully PADI or others take a look at how many times people question AOW and other training they provide and do something

 

[TimAZ]

I had 1000s of dives when I got mine. I wouldn't have bothered at all if some of the ops in the Keys didn't start giving me a hassle about diving the wrecks down there. AOW is a perfect example of Put Another Dollar In. The only thing that makes anyone an "advanced" diver is diving.

"Advanced" is a pretty poor term, but getting a head start on skills at an early stage can make experience pay off a lot sooner than experience alone. Just my $.02

 

[DiverBeth]

I had over 40 dives when I did AOW. I thought it was pretty easy too. This spring I'm going to do rescue. My instructor told me I'll get more of a challenge out of that.