How much are you willing to pay your LDS over online?

[redacted]

Ok I just got another prospective today and one I can respect an LDS for. Even though I tend to not like many dive shop practices one pointed out a very serious issue today. He said alot of people buy things on line and never give a shop a second thought. They then come to the shop hoping to get free service on defect because its under warranty.

In short it made me think. If your going to order online its a decision thats a worthy one. But at least if your going to go to your dive shop to fix other peoples problems dont be cheap about it and offer something to get it fixed. Even if they dont accept it for being under warranty maybe give a tip. After all they have to pay some bills too and if they only fix other peoples problems for free they wont be around very long.

I just thought Id share my updated outlook

With scuba gear, the norm seems to be that parts are covered by warranty but labor is not. If that is the case, I just don't see why an LDS should balk at repairing an item under warranty when they are authorized to do warranty work. Plus, it give the shop an opportunity to gain a satisfied customer. Now, if it gets down to a warranty exchange on an item, I see their point. But it seems to me the problem is not the customer who expects a free warranty exchange for a defective item but the manufacturer that does not compensate the shop for a warranty exchange caused by the crap they manufactured.

My preferred way of dealing with this is to buy gear that does not come with a manufacturer's warranty as long as the price reflects that. For me, that usually means I'm looking for used gear, not new.

 

[redacted]

Truth in what you say kellis. My policy is that if I have a warranty claim, it goes to the people I purchased it from regardless of if they're online or not. I am taking my gloves back to my LDS today because the stitching is coming out. If it were online, I'd take pictures, give ST a call and ask them for an RMA.

I am very curious about the people who voted 31-40% markup though. For the 5 of you who marked that, do you pay that much because you have disposable income, because you have awesome LDS staff? Or is it a purely hypothetical number and you havent paid that mark up yet?

Maybe they are the staff at some LDS.

 

[k ellis]

My preferred way of dealing with this is to buy gear that does not come with a manufacturer's warranty as long as the price reflects that. For me, that usually means I'm looking for used gear, not new.

I do look for a limited amount of gear without warranty such as dive knives for example. Since its difficult (Though not impossible ) to screw up a knife to the point of defective and not notice it in the shop, I prefer to buy one without a 1 year warranty for 10 dollars less.

Computers I do look for warranty though since they are a pricy item and one that can and all too often does go bad.

Used gear and often can be a great way to get a good dive set. We had a diver who moved here not too long ago from somewhere ocean side and decided since he could not get carribean visibility is our lakes he would just sale all of his gear. Someone made out like a fat rat since they got a computer, wetsuit, a couple tanks and a bcd plus all the nick nacks too (Mask fins snorkel dive knife etc...) for a $1000.00 dollars. By most standards thats fairly cheap

 

[karastal]

I'm in a bit of a different situation in my location. Our LDS's are military run and while they try to have large selections, logistically, it's next to impossible. I marked 41%+ due to the fact if I don't want to wait for 2-6 weeks for it to get here, I have to pay the mark-up or buy out on the economy. With the Yen rate being what it is these days, that's not really an option. For us it comes down to how soon do you need it. If you need it quickly and don't want to take the chance it won't get here in time, buy local. If you don't mind waiting a week or two or three, order on-line.

 

[Cinemaniac]

Great question and one I have been thinking about a lot this week as I am looking to buy a wetsuit and BCD for my 10 year old daughter.
Just about every shop in my area seems sell everything at full MSRP, which in this age of e-commerce seems downright stupid. The BCD that fits like a dream for her is the Ladyhawk and my LDS wants $725 (MSRP). The lady there (she was one of the owners) spent about 20 minutes with us demoing everything, had one in her size (though not color), was not patronizing given that we both were newly certified (one think I hate about the dive shop we got certified at), and really knew the product. I was impressed and thought to myself as I left the shop that I would gladly buy from them even if they had it online for $50-$60 less. I found it for $549 online. $175 is not chump change and I plan to try to bargain with them to lower their price to be more competitive.

The real question is: was her 20 minutes of demo and expertise worth $175? Attorneys and doctors make that kind of hourly rate, not retail sales people. I'm thinking no. In general, I think it is fair to give an LDS a 5% markup for instant gratification, 5% for being able to actually touch/try on/play with the the thing, and then I'm willing to pay for the salesperson's time. I figure a salesperson in an LDS makes tops $20/hr. If they spend an hour helping me I have no problem with paying a premium for the actual time and expertise rendered.

 

[k ellis]

Great question and one I have been thinking about a lot this week as I am looking to buy a wetsuit and BCD for my 10 year old daughter.
Just about every shop in my area seems sell everything at full MSRP, which in this age of e-commerce seems downright stupid. The BCD that fits like a dream for her is the Ladyhawk and my LDS wants $725 (MSRP). The lady there (she was one of the owners) spent about 20 minutes with us demoing everything, had one in her size (though not color), was not patronizing given that we both were newly certified (one think I hate about the dive shop we got certified at), and really knew the product. I was impressed and thought to myself as I left the shop that I would gladly buy from them even if they had it online for $50-$60 less. I found it for $549 online. $175 is not chump change and I plan to try to bargain with them to lower their price to be more competitive.

The real question is: was her 20 minutes of demo and expertise worth $175? Attorneys and doctors make that kind of hourly rate, not retail sales people. I'm thinking no. In general, I think it is fair to give an LDS a 5% markup for instant gratification, 5% for being able to actually touch/try on/play with the the thing, and then I'm willing to pay for the salesperson's time. I figure a salesperson in an LDS makes tops $20/hr. If they spend an hour helping me I have no problem with paying a premium for the actual time and expertise rendered.

If it were me I would buy it online for that much of a savings but another option is if you really feel she did a great job and was worthy of a little extra then give her a chance and go in and explain your financial delima of 175 dollars savings and aske her if she can even come close to meeting it. Ive been to dive shops where they would come down on prices if it means they make 25 dollars in profit or no profit at all.

Service is a big saler and any one with ANY kind of sense would know that. As people on here have already stated sometimes its worth a LITTLE extra for having it right then and there and also a great repor with the shop. But as I mentioned earlier how many salesman would pay 5000 dollars more for a car they can drive 2 hours away for 75 dollars in gas and get the same car? A few would do it as we seen but 5000 is 5000 dollars.

Another way to look at it is the shop owner makes 200 dollars in profit. Does he go to ma and pas store and get 200 dollars worth of groceries that last a week or goto walmart and get the exact same name brand and get 2 weeks of groceries.

What ever you decide I think giving the shop a chance to see if they will at least come down to within a reasonable amount would not be a bad idea.

 

[FuzzyNutz]

I try to support all brick and mortar stores as much as possible, but sometimes a good online deal is just too hard to pass up (especially for me, a broke college student!). The LDS closest to me, in my opinion, is employed by greedy upsellers who look down on you - not a place I enjoy frequenting.

On a side note, any LDS who is suffering, what is stopping them from becomming an online retailer? Last time I checked, it's pretty cheap to start up and maintain a website. Quite frankly, they should stop b1tching and learn a way to run their business better - this is a free market, and if you're unwilling to compete or work harder, then you deserve to fail (this goes for ANY business). If someone else is making it happen, than you have NO excuses.

 

[Lenaxia]

Pans, its much easier said than done. Just "going online" does not simply make your problems go away. Part of the reason why places like ScubaToys can be successful online is because they handle such large volumes which brings their operating costs down. They own a huge market segment because there aren't that many competitiors (leisure pro and a few others)

Now if every LDS went online, we'd be stuck in the same problem again where they'd all be fighting with eachother for market share and no one would have high volume sales anymore and ALL Their operating costs would go up.

So just saying "Quite frankly, they should stop b1tching and learn a way to run their business better" isn't exactly the most thought out statement out there. Being a free market has nothing to do with a bad economy or limited market.

 

[FuzzyNutz]

I know my comments come off has harsh, but I don't mean to be a butt about it. That type of thinking is a general motivator in life for me. If someone else can do it, then so can I, and I should have no excuses. Like you said, easier said than done, but the people who get paid are the ones getting it done (and not complaining about a bad economy). That's where the hard work comes into play.

The online thing is just one example of a way to help - and I didn't mean for that to be a focal point of my post or a solution to the problem.

 

[bs63366]

Right now I am buying all of my gear online, I don't really like the 50%+ markup on everything when I go to a shop in Japan as opposed to what I can get it for from the states. That being said when I get back to the states I will be getting small odds and ends from the diveshop if they are not to insanely high, but I do work for my money and don't want to give it away. That being said I will be supporting them with training and airfills, so they will still be making money on me just in a different way.