How much are you willing to pay your LDS over online?

[vladimir]

Bull?@! on instruction, fills, and VIP keeping a dive shop in business! Instructors get most of the fees on instruction - not the owners. Most dive equipment bought online comes with no warranty. If you don't support your LDS, who is going to service that life-support equipment you need to depend on to keep you alive??? ... of course, this is my opinion ....

Then they should raise the prices. You can't sell fills or instruction on-line. Why don't shops raise those prices and differentiate themselves from their peers on quality, rather than price?

The "life support" card? Always entertaining.

 

[redacted]

The "life support" card? Always entertaining.

You better be careful. I think he may have a "where will you get air card" in the hole. Or do you lose that when you play the "no warranty card" out of turn?

 

[k ellis]

I too love to support my LDS and we have 2 of them near by. I try to when possible get price quotes on items but my limit is 15 dollars. For example I went to a dive shop and asked about dive knives and I was offered a stainless steele dive knife for 50 dollars. I went online and got the exact same one in Titanium for 45 dollars. to me it made better since to buy a no maitenance knife for 5 dollars less then one Id have to constantly dry off and oil occasionally for 5 dollars more.

Tanks are a great example. I can get them local for about 135 dollars which is ball park of online so I dont mind buying them here and keeping the money local. But wet suits are a sore subject as well. I can get them online (Shorties) for around 40 dollars or so yet here they are 75 dollars or better. 35 dollars is substantial when it comes to groceries and as crucial for my survival as it is for the LDS.

And product bashing is another thing I hate. When I go to a LDS and they bash Mares for example. I always hear from LDS how Mares is not a good company because they sale their products on the internet and therefore flooded it with their gear and forced their own cost down. I personaly see nothing wrong with alot of Mares gear and its cost is considerable for the recreational diver.

Now given the choice I would much rather go to a lds and spend the money but my question to all the LDS owners is this. If you could drive 100 miles or even drive 24 hours to buy the car of your dreams for 35,000 dollars would you do that or stay local and pay localy 40,000 dollars? I would almost be willing to bet the owners of the dive shops would opt to go out of town or state to save money themselves so its not fair to bash people who dive and wish to do the same thing with their gear.

 

[jhelmuth]

All intersting food or thought...

How do you feel if/when your job is in jepoardy of being outsourced off-shore?

Do you feel you need and LDS at all (if so why)?

What is your real "hot button" or priority in dive gear purchases (selection / price / service) - and how do they rank?

I can see it both ways (all points of view really) - but in the end, this industry has a significant challenge to overcome with how we deliver product to the customer.

One thing that I foresee is that "service" in this industry is going to skyrocket. A man will only stay within the industry if he can figure a way to make ennough money to provide for his family. Otherwise, he is out and looking for another gig. I'd be happy to sell srevice much more than product since I have much less investment in that than service (and a lot less "fickle" internet shoppers who use me to shop for their "deals").

I'm not a dive shop owner - but I do see their pight and am very close to at least one shop owner and can vouch that they have to work damn hard to make a living while overcoming the non-brick-n-mortar inernet shop who has so much less overhead to factor into their cost of doing business.

I think we all oght to think more about what the big picture is and what we really do want. It's a painful lesson sometimes to learn... "Be careful what you ask for - you are very likely to get it".


All the best,

Jim

 

[Cap335]

Now given the choice I would much rather go to a lds and spend the money but my question to all the LDS owners is this. If you could drive 100 miles or even drive 24 hours to buy the car of your dreams for 35,000 dollars would you do that or stay local and pay localy 40,000 dollars? I would almost be willing to bet the owners of the dive shops would opt to go out of town or state to save money themselves so its not fair to bash people who dive and wish to do the same thing with their gear.

Well I'm a store owner and I can tell you I don't kill myself shopping for a new truck when I bought my last one I pulled into my favorite dealer checked what was on the lot and bought one. That said the only internet shoppers that bother me are the ones that waste my salespeoples time trying things on to get sizing before internet ordering.

Randy

 

[bracko]

I selected 11-20%...

i bought my first wetsuit, BCD, regs + bits and bobs from an LDS mainly due to the point that they will have no hesitation in looking over something if i have a problem, help me play around/slightly modify my gear and for the after sales service.

I'm in australia, so purchasing from scuba toys (with delivery which is still bucketloads cheaper than buying "online" in australia) is the cheapest and works out at around 15%+ cheaper... which is a lot of money when i spent AUD$2150.

I'll probably continue to purchase fitted items (wetsuits etc, possibly BCD's) form a LDS, but things like tanks, regs, bits and pieces i'll look elsewhere first, but give them the chance to see what they can do.

also, like someone above said, trying on then buying online is weak... if you get store assitance and advice, don't be a cheap bastard... buy it there.

 

[vladimir]

How do you feel if/when your job is in jepoardy of being outsourced off-shore?

I outsourced myself--moved to Hong Kong and took a tax cut.

With a lot of people, capitalism is a religion, and they are apparently oblivious to the human consequences of "ruinous competition." People whose jobs are outsourced are victims of globalization, technology, and efficiency; as long as there is somebody who is as skilled as you are and willing to work for less, you are expendable. The inevitable result is that wages in wealthy countries will converge with those in emerging economies that have the infrastructure to educate their population and deliver its goods and services, electronically and physically. I interview Chinese nationals regularly--they are better qualified than the applicant pool in NYC and willing to work for less. Per capita GDP in China is about $3,700, so that's where your income is headed. It's a bleak outlook for Americans--I'm glad I'm not 20 sometimes (but not usually ).

 

[k ellis]

Well I'm a store owner and I can tell you I don't kill myself shopping for a new truck when I bought my last one I pulled into my favorite dealer checked what was on the lot and bought one. That said the only internet shoppers that bother me are the ones that waste my salespeoples time trying things on to get sizing before internet ordering.

Randy

Fair enough and I should state that it makes sense that if a person walks in to the store and sees a product he wants and is willing to pay for it then I can understand. My point being though is people walk into a shop and tell see something they want but its way over cost of what they can pay online they may ask a dealer (I would to give a fair chance to make a sale) if he can match what they see online. I hate the old hook line and sinker scam of telling a customer that only what he sales is quality or If you see the same product on line for cheaper then its a fake or gray market and youll be eaten by the manufacture Etc...........


I mean would it not make sense to encourage a customer to weigh his options and do so without tearing the other guy down?

Again though its not diving a good example of my point is go to a chevy dealer and ask his opinions on fords or go to a ford dealer and ask his opinions of chevy.

One interesting story I heard not long ago was from a guy who runs a shop in Oklahoma City called blue water divers (Ill use the name since its not degradeing. I wont ever deface a shop on line) The salesman told me years ago OKlahoma City had a blood bath for service and buisness and it took its toll on all the shops. Now they all sort of unified and work together in some sort of strange but none the less interesting way and they help one another out. According to him its caused buisness to boom.

but as to your point you made. You went to a dealer and he shot you a price. You were in agreement with it so you purchased it. But if you would not have liked the price or service you would have shopped elsewhere right?

Im all for the Local Dive shop and truth be told I try to go to mine when I can. But my dollars speaks as loudly for me in my wallet as it would for the shop in his till. What would the dive shops do if customers could no longer afford to buy gear with this economy the way it is?

 

[Thalassamania]

You better be careful. I think he may have a "where will you get air card" in the hole. Or do you lose that when you play the "no warranty card" out of turn?

As I pointed out earlier, for the difference in price on one full set of gear you can buy a small compressor. As most all of us know, the "no warranty" card is a loser.

Well I'm a store owner and I can tell you I don't kill myself shopping for a new truck when I bought my last one I pulled into my favorite dealer checked what was on the lot and bought one. That said the only internet shoppers that bother me are the ones that waste my salespeoples time trying things on to get sizing before internet ordering.

Randy

I have to agree, if you're going to tie up the shop's time and people they at least deserve a crack at the deal.

 

[k ellis]

also, like someone above said, trying on then buying online is weak... if you get store assitance and advice, don't be a cheap bastard... buy it there.

I can fully agree with that. Its a slap in the face to go into the store and feed a line of bull and tie up the stores time and everything with absolutely no intention of buying anything. I mean store owners love to talk diving but they dont like to do it and be used as a testing ground either.