How much Nitrox is too much?

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Selachimorpha

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Hi there,

There is a question I would like to open up to discussion regarding Nitrox.

I am a full time diving instructor and dive guide. For me this means that I do about 50 to 60 dives a month on average. I will normally dive for 6 days during each week and have one dry day, but sometimes it ends up being longer without time out of the water. If I am guiding I tend to do more dives than while I am teaching, so it varies a lot. Guiding I am normally doing 3 a day.

I use Nitrox 32% on every dive. The maximum depth of these dives is 30 meters, so Nitrox 32% is an ideal gas for this application. I have worked at other dive operations in other countries in the past where there was no or very limited Nitrox available. Where this was the case I was doing the same kind of diving on air, and let me tell you that Nitrox really makes a huge difference. Now I am diving to the air NDLs breathing Nitrox and I feel a whole load better, something you don't realise until you experience the change for yourself. I am refering to this strictly from the perspective of a pro doing the volume of dives that I am, it makes a massive difference. So far, so good!

However, recently I have begun thinking about my lungs. I am a PADI Enriched Air Nitrox instructor qualified to train people in the use of enriched air nitrox with an oxygen content of up to and including 40%. So in this course we learn to track our oxygen exposure based on the DSAT Oxygen Exposure Table (I think thats what it's called, I don't have it to hand, its the back of the white EAD table). PADI/DSAT informs us on this table that our exposure should not exceed 100% in 24 hours. We can calculate what % we are currently at by calculating the Partial Pressure of the Oxygen for a given depth and seeing how much time we have spent at that depth. Now if you are doing normal recreational dives, and you calculate your exposure it is nearly impossible to get anywhere near 100%. You have to spend a lot of time at significant depth (ie at high partial pressures of oxygen) and normally air consumption or even nitrogen loading is the limiting factor during a day's diving.

Now, PADI/DSAT says in 24 hours, no more than 100%. But for me where do those 24 hours end? If I dive 3 dives every day, for a week or maybe to, is each day a new one?

Of course I will continue to use Nitrox, the benefits with regard to Nitrogen are immense, I just wanted to put this out as something to consider. Would it be good to maybe a day without Nitrox every once in a while? Does it make no difference? As with other things in diving, what we are taught sometimes goes out the window when you start diving nearly every day of the year. Just interested to hear people's opinions, perhaps some of the medical people on this board, maybe some of the tech divers (those on Rebreathers must know much more about oxygen than me!).

Many thanks in advance for any replies (sorry about the long post)!
 
Every 24 hours means every day, yes. I wouldn't worry about it too much. The folks doing the crazy stuff like the WKPP have empirically showed that the 24 hour exposure limits for ppO2 is pretty conservative. The type of problems you would develop would be closer to Pulmonary Toxicity, not the more dangerous CNS OxTox. If you start having problems with weezing and coughing, you might want to reconsider the nitrox every dive, but it sounds like you already have been doing this for a while with no ill effects.

Another thing to think about is that on a typical recreational profile, you are probably not at 30 meters for more than about 10 minutes each dive before you start heading shallower. Once you get shallower than 70'/20m, you are less than 1.0ata ppO2. So even if you do 3 dives a day, the amount of time spent breathing the truly elevated ppO2s is limited to around 60 minutes a day.

Tom
 
"However, recently I have begun thinking about my lungs"

So your concern is OTU loading?

The established table is based on the idea that someone can safely breathe pure oxygen (at the surface) for an entire day. Within any 24 hour period, you don't want to exceed 1440 (i.e. 24*60).

I wouldn't consider my "new day" as starting when the clock rolls over, rather I'd keep track of my total exposure on a 24-hour basis.

Have you ever noticed any symptoms of pulmonary toxicity? I'm doubting it.
 
You need to track your oxygen load on a rolling 24 hour timeframe. Which means that if you did 3 dives in the afternoon and next day you have 2 dives in the morning you have 5 dives in 24 hour period. If you then have 3rd dive that day after you ended up first dive the day before then discount that dive.
 
....I am a full time diving instructor and dive guide....Guiding I am normally doing 3 a day....I use Nitrox 32% on every dive. The maximum depth of these dives is 30 meters, so Nitrox 32% is an ideal gas for this application.....

Ideal, yes it sure is. But I have to ask you- how do you feel about having to go after that cute girl who is slowly passing down and through the 150's?

Twice now I have signaled a DM on nitrox to wait~ while I (on air) went after some deep-sea-diving doofus.
 
Ideal, yes it sure is. But I have to ask you- how do you feel about having to go after that cute girl who is slowly passing down and through the 150's?

Twice now I have signaled a DM on nitrox to wait~ while I (on air) went after some deep-sea-diving doofus.

I generally agree with you, but this starts the discussion of how quickly CNS OXTOX kicks in as pO2 increases. I discussed this issue with DAN a couple years ago when I did my Adv. Nitrox. Their answer was it isn't immediate and depends on pO2, breathing rate, and the individual. Certainly the diver has a few minutes above 1.6 for sure. USN does 2.0, but they're in much better condition that we are, or at least I am.

I don't have my tables handy, but on 32% EAN, 1.6 is about 132' and 150' would be around 1.8. I'd definitely go to 1.6 to rescue a diver. 1.8 probably but it would be real quick down and back up to 1.4 or lower. I'd grab the back of their tank and hit the UP button on the elevator. Would certainly exceed 30 FPM on the way up to a deep stop.

I know, I know-don't become a second victim. But I'd do everything within reason to save another diver. That''s just the way I was trained by the good ol' USN(SS)

just my 2 psi.
 
It's pretty easy to say 150' and worry about EAN32. You could also pick 300' and air. Dufus rescue is a very risky proposition.

At some point, it is better to send flowers. Unless it's family...

Richard
 
But then again, this topic wasn't about pushing ppO2s. Shall we leave that for another thread.
 
However, recently I have begun thinking about my lungs. I am a PADI Enriched Air Nitrox instructor qualified to train people in the use of enriched air nitrox with an oxygen content of up to and including 40%. So in this course we learn to track our oxygen exposure based on the DSAT Oxygen Exposure Table (I think thats what it's called, I don't have it to hand, its the back of the white EAD table). PADI/DSAT informs us on this table that our e

You might want to think about getting (even just borrowing) a computer that tracks your O2 exposure so you can see what it actually is. Unless you're diving square profiles, you're probably not coming anywhere near the daily O2 limits.

As b1gcountry mentioned, if you're diving like this every day for long periods of time, I'd keep an eye out for Pulmonary O2 tox.

Terry
 
If I understand the OP's question correctly, they are worried about cumulative oxygen exposure by diving 6 days a week with nitrox.

This sounds to me like an OTU question.

REPEX lists permissable OTU's per day: on day one you are allowed 850 OTU's; day 3, 620 OTU's; day 6, 420 OTU's, etc.

The curve flattens after 11 days of diving, at 300 OTU's.

Given that the OP refers to using 32% for 30 meter dives (which would be 1.28 OTU's per minute), that would be a bottom time limit of 234 minutes per day (assuming all time is at 30 meters, or, a square dive).

A more reasonable profile is one that spends perhaps 20 minutes at 30 meters, then up to 20 meters for the remainder of a 45 minute dive. This results in 50 OTU's per dive, so you could execute 6 of such dives per day without risk of pulmonary or whole-body oxygen issues.

Hope this helps!


All the best, James
 
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