How those idiots (us) run out of air

[MXGratefulDiver]

I suspect that dive shops have learned, over time, that not many people will either be honest or can make an accurate assessment of their own diving skills. I know, with horses, that EVERYBODY who wants to ride them has "ridden a lot", is "very comfortable on a horse", and wants to go faster, longer than is safe.

... but unlike many DM's, the horse can discern an inexperienced rider ... and respond accordingly. I still have a vivid memory of laying on the ground on my back staring up into the face of Peter's horse just after it showed me a rather unconventional way to dismount ... :shocked2: ... I swear it was laughing at me ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[billt4sf]

I suspect that dive shops have learned, over time, that not many people will either be honest or can make an accurate assessment of their own diving skills. I know, with horses, that EVERYBODY who wants to ride them has "ridden a lot", is "very comfortable on a horse", and wants to go faster, longer than is safe.

Look at the number of people who thought they were perfectly adequate divers, who have Fundies slap them in the face.

In addition to the financial pressure to get people out on dives, and the fact that most of the trouble people get themselves into CAN be salvaged, there is the feeling that a pre-dive assessment is futile.

So the lack of adequate pre-dive assessments has nothing to do with why many new divers dive a few times and then stop? It has nothing to do with why some divers lie about (or cannot assess) their abilities? Nothing to do with why the scuba industry doesn't do financially all that great (from what I hear)?

Taking a few minutes to talk to each diver / group in a straightforward way -- not grilling them -- would help alot with their comfort level with that op, and therefore their desire to return to that op to dive more. And with everyone's comfort level with the site(s).

But hey -- even after all these years, I am still one of the naive ones. I still believe that things can change for the better. (Maybe I should take a lesson from myself -- I even thought that about the school system for the first 8 years of teaching .... now I know better).

- Bill

 

[phoenix31tt]

So the lack of adequate pre-dive assessments has nothing to do with why many new divers dive a few times and then stop? It has nothing to do with why some divers lie about (or cannot assess) their abilities? Nothing to do with why the scuba industry doesn't do financially all that great (from what I hear)?

errr... nope? The easier the entry is, the more people would dive... i don't see how LACK of a pre-dive assessment would cause somebody to lie about their abilities :S... its during the pre-dive assessment the lying usually happens...

I don't think you understand, talking to a diver... whether it be straight forward or side forward does not change the fact that people lie (maybe unintentionally), and oversell themselves... as i said you may be different.. but you are in the minority... most people with an OW cert thinks they can dive... and we see it in all forms of activity all the time... i see it daily in my field

even divers that have been diving for years thinks they are doing it right (as TSandM points out, something like GUE fundies then slaps them in the face)...

Performing verbal assessments before a dive will not change this...

assessing a diver in the water is the only true assessment of their abilities (and as we pointed out, the check dive is not always feasible... which is just reality)

i've recently dove with someone who has been diving since the early 80's and successfully operating a shop for the past 20 something years... he doesn't do two things:

1. pre-dive assess because most times he finds what he sees in the water is different to what he's been told
2. assign insta-buddies, because he realizes that people will do what they want down there anyways and the insta-buddy scenario doesnt work out most of the time

 

[TSandM]

Bill, I do think that being overfaced and then frightened is a reason why people stop diving. I believe that very strongly. But I think the problem needs to be addressed much further back on the chain than at the dive op in the tropics. I think it needs to be addressed by better diver training, and by instructors who emphasize the importance of being conservative, diving frequently, and practicing skills. I think it needs to be addressed by divers, who exercise prudence and stick to the suggested limits until they have some experience under their belts.

Yes, it is bad for dive ops, boat captains or even friends or dive club members to try to push a diver into a dive he isn't ready to do. And yes, it happens. But that's the bottom of the incident pit, not the top.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Unfortunately some entities see nothing wrong with this as long as the money rolls in. It's what happens when training is based on profit and not skills and education. The industry shoots itself in the foot then cries and whines. Or comes up with ridiculous ideas to try and get people roped in. Much of it based on a false sense of security they try and give them.
ie. "Oh don't worry about buoyancy and trim now. That'll come with time. Same with planning a dive. Just follow the DM and you'll be fine! And ya know you'd make a fine DM,want to sign up for it after we finish these OW checkout dives?"

 

[billt4sf]

I think it needs to be addressed by better diver training, and by instructors who emphasize the importance of being conservative, diving frequently, and practicing skills.

That would be great! And even less likely to happen than what I suggested.

- Bill

 

[supergaijin]

Trainee's need to be realistic as well about what they expect to achieve from a 3-4 day diving course. It's not that uncommon to see people coming in to a divecenter on vacation who can relate to one of these:
1. Cannot swim.
2. Cannot float.
3. Are afraid of water.
4. Have never free-dived.
5. Have never snorkeled.
6. Are afraid of fish.
7. Have no experience in the ocean.

Then there are the 'regular' people who don't spend a lot of time in or around water. Too often they also sign up for a dive course expecting the course to turn them in to divers. It doesn't work like that. Thses people may well do enough to finish a course but the course does not turn you in to a diver.

The course covers the neccessary skills in order for he individual to become a diver through repetition of those skills during future dives.

 

[Bob DBF]

Unfortunately some entities see nothing wrong with this as long as the money rolls in. It's what happens when training is based on profit and not skills and education.

Let's not forget it's a dance. The new diver wants to be turned into a Navy Seal when they walk in with supergaijin's list of 1. Cannot swim.2. Cannot float. 3. Are afraid of water.4. Have never free-dived. 5. Have never snorkeled. 6. Are afraid of fish.7. Have no experience in the ocean, and expect this transformation to be done in three days without any effort on their part. When one instructor say it can't happen, the prospective diver moves on until they find an instructor that says "no problem". A society raised on instant gratification will expect nothing less.

The demand is there and, so far, the price is only paid by a few individuals. I don't see a lot of changes coming to the industry as a whole.



Bob
------------------------------------
"If you don't like it, go on the internet and complain." Brian Griffin

 

[MrChen]

Trainee's need to be realistic as well about what they expect to achieve from a 3-4 day diving course. It's not that uncommon to see people coming in to a divecenter on vacation who can relate to one of these:

4. Have never free-dived.

The course covers the neccessary skills in order for he individual to become a diver through repetition of those skills during future dives.

This is a requirement now? I guess I shouldn't get in the water...

 

[Steveed]

Hey, wow, this is my second post. Being pretty new (47 dives), I've just been lurking... I recently did a dive in the Piscataqua River that is relevant to this topic. Dives in the river are often timed around slack water, as this 98% salt water river's currents are tidal.

I actually found a wreck at about 50 fsw that I was looking for, which was a win for me, and I was feeling pretty good about it. Well, I guess I stayed in the water about 10 -15 minutes too late, and I was still at about 40 feet when the current began really ripping. Tank pressure went from 1000 to 500 psi in a matter of a couple minutes as I exerted myself working my way up the river bank to about 18 fsw. I then chose to skip my safety stop and ascend, to deal with getting back to my exit point on the surface. So, I put myself in a situation that I am not comfortable being in, and will make an effort to not repeat.

I learned (at least) two things:
1.) I am recording the dive times and the times of high tide in order to have a better I idea of when to plan a dive around slack water.
2.) Why it's good to plan for the unexpected or unanticipated. This will influence me to be conservative more often when it comes to tank air.
3.) ... three things maybe ... I will not be condescending and say that OOG could not happen to me. I don't think I will make the same mistake again, but I will probably make a different mistake - so, redundancy.

Steve