Human rights to dolphins?

[danvolker]

Leaving aside for a moment your unhealthy tendency to propose killing people as the solution, the unhealthiness of which is evidenced by the fact you actually find such a proposition humorous...

"What it means to be human" can be defined in a number of different ways, no question. And there will be no right or wrong in many of the definitions - context will matter, among other things. It is not unusual for words or phrases to be "blessed" with multiple nuanced meanings.

Nonetheless.

Type "human definition" into Google and you will get the definition below. When used as a noun, dolphins are clearly NOT human. Yes, they may exhibit some human characteristics as supported by the definition of the word when used as an adjective. But they are not human. What do you see in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that supports granting these rights to animals? References are to humans, people, men, women. There is no reference to, for example, inter-species discrimination.

What about responsibilities? It is pretty widely recognized by most that rights do carry concomitant responsibilities, although there is a resistance to codifying those responsibilities in the same way we codify rights (not surprising given the lack of personal accountability we see in todays society).

https://www.scu.edu/ethics/practici...lectures/balance-rights-responsibilities.html

"Human Rights and Human Responsibilities: A Necessary Balance?" by Mia Giacomazzi

Balancing Rights and Responsibilities - Just Conflict

How do you see dolphins fulfilling the responsibilities attendant to the rights you want to grant them? Are both dolphins and people to have the same rights but only people to have responsibilities?

Back to your propensity for advocating murder... does this not then make dolphins criminal? How could they present a defense? Even if they could, how could such premeditated acts be defended?

This line of reasoning that equates dolphins and humans devolves into nonsense very quickly.

If one wishes to protect dolphins for whatever reason, to limit the harm done to them or cruelty visited upon them, that is a laudable goal and a fairly uniquely human one.

Advocating that dolphins should be considered human under the law is both silly and impractical. They are not human and never will be.

Advocating murder to achieve these goals makes you a terrorist.



hu·man
ˈ(h)yo͞omən/
adjective
adjective: human

• 1.
  of, relating to, or characteristic of people or human beings.
  "the human body"
  

  synonyms:

  anthropomorphic, anthropoid, humanoid, hominid More "in human form"

  • of or characteristic of people as opposed to God or animals or machines, esp. in being susceptible to weaknesses.
    "they are only human, and therefore mistakes do occur"
    

    synonyms:

    mortal, flesh and blood; More fallible, weak, frail, imperfect, vulnerable, susceptible, erring, error-prone; physical, bodily, fleshly "they're only human"

  • of or characteristic of people's better qualities, such as kindness or sensitivity.
    "the human side of politics is getting stronger"
    

    synonyms:

    compassionate, humane, kind, considerate, understanding, sympathetic, tolerant; More approachable, accessible "the human side of politics"

  • Zoology
    of or belonging to the genus Homo.
  
  
  
  

noun
noun: human; plural noun: humans

• 1.
  a human being, esp. a person as distinguished from an animal or (in science fiction) an alien.

This breaks down to the simpleminded view of the religious zealots of the world, that feel that the Church has the right to determine human behavior and what is GOOD OR RIGHT..... Clue... the Religions of the world fail miserably at deciding what is Right or Good.

As to the nonsense about terrorism --because I am advocating the Dolphins be able to defend themselves from fisherman.....I find it hard to believe that your education failed to cover the role of the military in conflicts throughout the ages.... What do you call it when the public calls for war? What do you call it when a military leader begins pushing for a pre-emptive strike against some faction or country?

What I am suggesting is the need for a military response...the US Navy has trained many dolphins to plant mines on ships.....While I see no chance, for even a covert military action against a faction of fisherman in Japan....the need for the military response exists for this-- as much as it did with the Bosnia and Serbian conflict.....and the need for a large environmental organization to become an arm of our military, secretly, and for the greater good, is obvious.

The pious, and those such as garter, may believe that they were made in "God's image", and they are the only ones in a Ptolemaic Universe with inherent rights..... Personally, I'd feel sorry for such people, if it was not for all the harm they have done through the ages with their beliefs.

 

[live&dive]

Is dolphin meat even widely eaten in Japan?

 

[gcarter]

This breaks down to the simpleminded view of the religious zealots of the world, that feel that the Church has the right to determine human behavior and what is GOOD OR RIGHT..... Clue... the Religions of the world fail miserably at deciding what is Right or Good.

As to the nonsense about terrorism --because I am advocating the Dolphins be able to defend themselves from fisherman.....I find it hard to believe that your education failed to cover the role of the military in conflicts throughout the ages.... What do you call it when the public calls for war? What do you call it when a military leader begins pushing for a pre-emptive strike against some faction or country?

What I am suggesting is the need for a military response...the US Navy has trained many dolphins to plant mines on ships.....While I see no chance, for even a covert military action against a faction of fisherman in Japan....the need for the military response exists for this-- as much as it did with the Bosnia and Serbian conflict.....and the need for a large environmental organization to become an arm of our military, secretly, and for the greater good, is obvious.

The pious, and those such as garter, may believe that they were made in "God's image", and they are the only ones in a Ptolemaic Universe with inherent rights..... Personally, I'd feel sorry for such people, if it was not for all the harm they have done through the ages with their beliefs.

Nice.

Apparently I somehow found religion today. Appropriate for a Sunday, I guess.

Since I said nothing of religion or the religious view of "GOOD OR RIGHT" or of the right of "the Church" (which church? or religion?) to determine anyone's behaviour, this must be just another mindless, emotional rant.

 

[danvolker]

Is dolphin meat even widely eaten in Japan?

Not so much...it is mostly the fisherman of the area and their barbaric practices--they feel it is their cultural right.....I feel it is our cultural right to take covert military action against them....

See
[video=youtube_share;bhO05doc0_I]http://youtu.be/bhO05doc0_I [/video]

 

[gcarter]

Is dolphin meat even widely eaten in Japan?

Not knowingly. It is typically passed off as whale meat - a whole other issue - and consumed by the unwary. In the movie The Cove, it is discussed that it was making its way into school lunch programs. I do not know if that is still happening.

 

[danvolker]

Nice.

Apparently I somehow found religion today. Appropriate for a Sunday, I guess.

Since I said nothing of religion or the religious view of "GOOD OR RIGHT" or of the right of "the Church" (which church? or religion?) to determine anyone's behaviour, this must be just another mindless, emotional rant.

Let's not get started on what is "mindless"....
To your failure to see how you brought religion in to this, the Rights and Human responsibilities proposal gained much of it's direction from the religious views of the cultures weighing in on this....AND.... I suppose you did not notice the following section:

QUOTE " The resistance to the Universal Declaration of Human Responsibilities stems from the belief by some states and most human rights activists that the Responsibilities Declaration will weaken the issue of human rights. Concerns arose that oppressive regimes might readily embrace the concept of human responsibilities as a substitute for the advancement of human rights. Further, Article 14 of the Declaration of Human Responsibility drew attacks from the Western media who were concerned about the freedom of press."


This entire proposal is a massive failure, one that does nothing to shed light on the Dolphin slaughters--beyond the suggestion that there will be Asian factions that feel if the dolphins can't show social responsibility to humans, then they have no rights in their collective thinking....they CAN be slaughtered.

 

[gcarter]

Let's not get started on what is "mindless"....
To your failure to see how you brought religion in to this, the Rights and Human responsibilities proposal gained much of it's direction from the religious views of the cultures weighing in on this....AND.... I suppose you did not notice the following section:

QUOTE " The resistance to the Universal Declaration of Human Responsibilities stems from the belief by some states and most human rights activists that the Responsibilities Declaration will weaken the issue of human rights. Concerns arose that oppressive regimes might readily embrace the concept of human responsibilities as a substitute for the advancement of human rights. Further, Article 14 of the Declaration of Human Responsibility drew attacks from the Western media who were concerned about the freedom of press."


This entire proposal is a massive failure, one that does nothing to shed light on the Dolphin slaughters--beyond the suggestion that there will be Asian factions that feel if the dolphins can't show social responsibility to humans, then they have no rights in their collective thinking....they CAN be slaughtered.

I suppose you did not notice (or chose to ignore) where I prefaced these links with

...there is a resistance to codifying those responsibilities in the same way we codify rights...

thereby acknowledging the concerns. For the record, noting that you have highlighted activists, activist viewpoints are generally on the fringe of any movement and are often not representative of or well received by the overall population. Being an activist does not mean one is right or should have greater weight given to their words. Often it just means that they shout the loudest.

Nor did I anywhere say what I thought of the Universal Declaration of Human Responsibilities. But it is as useful a reference point as any when discussing the fact that some wing nut thinks that dolphins are people and that they deserver the same rights and status under the law - what kind of rights might this wing nut be referring to / advocating for?

If you chose to see religion under every rock, that is your failing, not mine, and shows a clear bias. Morality does not equal religion. support for rights does not equal religion. Supporting a position held by one of a religious bent does not make you religious. Discussing or using as a reference point something advocated by one of a religious bent does not make you religious.

I should also point out that despite your best efforts at putting words in my mouth in your various responses, I have no where said that I do not think they have ANY rights, and have in fact expressed my opinion on these current practices.

You seem not to be able to accept the fact that someone who does not share your eco-terrorist view (that it is just and right to murder those who are engaged in these acts) can still be opposed to those same acts.

---------- Post added February 16th, 2014 at 04:16 PM ----------

This entire proposal is a massive failure, one that does nothing to shed light on the Dolphin slaughters--beyond the suggestion that there will be Asian factions that feel if the dolphins can't show social responsibility to humans, then they have no rights in their collective thinking....they CAN be slaughtered.

When I read this I wonder if you are even aware of my OP, the provided link, and the point of the discussion.

 

[Max Speed]

My great aunt was eaten by pigs. So I'm angry with them and get revenge whenever possible.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

 

[Bob DBF]

Quote Originally Posted by LetterBoy
Nope, Europe is perfect.

Denmark is a big shame.The sea is stained in red and in the meanwhile it’s not because of the climate effects of nature. It's because of the cruelty that the human beings (civilised human) kill hundreds of the famous and intelligent Calderon dolphins. This happens every year in Feroe Iland in Denmark ."

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/thumbs-down/474766-wow-disgusting.html

You need to take this post down then.

Denmark is not actually correct. The Faroe islands, which is a self gover­ning region of the King­dom of Denmark, and has its own parlia­­ment and its own flag. It is not, however, a member of the European Union and all trade is go­ver­ned by special treaties. Denmark can not outlaw the practice since it is not happening in Denmark, but in the Faroe Islands.

The Faroe Islands have harvested, for noncommercial purposes, about 800 pilot whales a year for the last 400 years. This noncommercial hunt is aimed at meeting the community's need for whale meat and blubber, Which accounts for a quarter of the Faroe islanders' annual meat consumption.

In 1986 the International Whaling Commission (IWC) introduced "zero catch limits for commercial whaling"; however, the IWC's rules still allow for subsistence hunting in some parts of the world. The application of the IWC's regulations to long-finned pilot whales is somewhat ambiguous since (despite their name) those animals are not whales proper, and the Japanese use that to their advantage in their commercial harvesting.

There are under 50,000 Faroe Islanders, just pool the money instead of indignation and set up fast food joints in the Faroe's giving out free burgers, fried chicken, and pulled pork sandwiches and you could change their dietary needs in a generation, problem solved.



Bob
--------------------------------
On the Internet you can choose to be anything you want. It's strange that so many people choose to be stupid.

 

[NAM001]

Isnt it funny how tings like this bring out all the sides of human nature? How a few million people want to change the behavior of a few hundred individules whose behavior to themselves is merely survival or business as norm. Mass home slaughter is no different than the beef packing plants here at home. The creatures are higher level ones cause they care for thier young. Where is the line drawn in the mix. What makes a human different than the common or uncommon animal. Dolphins becoming the next generation delta force. Couldnt pass that one up. In the midst of all this we cant even agree if there is actually a crime because we cant even agree what position we are all speeking from. Perhaps the war on junk food could make a significant progressive leap if all who bought it was required to show thier junk food card they got from working in a packing plant. Or thier rodent picker outer card from the bologna\hotdog\ sausage plant. Or any of the root processing facilities that provide over 90% of what we consume daily. Some things are never going to go away such as energy consumption\ food consumption and the likes. We can become hermits and stay at home to avoid any interaction to others in order to preserve out beliefs but then, sooner or later we have to pay the price for even that. The emersion of new levels of antisocial behavior never seen before. We will be beating up hookers on street corners not because of thier occupation, or contrubution to widespread desiese, but because they have patrolium based products on. Non of us would be safe. I am not saying that we should all just close our eyes to these things, On the contrary, keep your eyes open and dont contribute to them. That would however may/probably just provide the motivation to continue or exxpand thier operations. Picture what cancoon coz or belize would be like if they suffered a 50% loss in tourism. Granted that these dolphon harvesting locals may not be on the most traveled list but still the process is more viable than Delta force ninja turtles cutting nets. If anything is true today, the only way to change behavior is to make that behavior to high of PERSONAL price to engage in. No reglatory body can or would take that route. They would prefer to say ,,,,, would you shut down your 2.5 mil business if we give you 2.5 billion. They will still do business but with more and better nets. Besides that only teaches how to extort, instead of how to be good custodians.