I f*** up and I am ashamed

[Dan G]

I am ambivalent about a 5 day DM course, however, I do know it is possible. There is a very successful and popular dive shop on Key Largo that offers multiple 5 day DM courses per month as part of their 'going pro' progression. I wonder if shops should steer divers who have no intention of a professional life in diving towards Master Scuba Diver instead of DM. DM is a professional certification and carries the expectations we have of a pro.

I can fully understand Dody's desire to continue his education and get his DM since it is a good way to continue one's education as a diver after Rescue. When I taught skiing, it was common for students to want something new every day or hour, even though there were times when they just needed more "miles" on different terrain working on the skills they had been practicing all while getting some constructive feedback. Dody, I think this is where you are now. You have a lot in your head and now you need to log a bunch of dives and focus on some skills while you do.

Going out with an instructor, such as Pete invited you to do, would be a great way to do this. Bringing your spouse along would be productive, as well, because it is Pete who would be helping her become a better buddy rather than you.

 

[drrich2]

Time Commitment
Approximately 50 hours

Does that 50 hours include the 40 logged dives and the CPR and First Aid courses? If so, many divers would already have those pre-requisite dives, and some might have the CPR and First Aid cert.s (e.g.: from Rescue Diver), before enrolling in the Dive Master course.

If a person has Rescue Diver (and CPR and First Aid cert.s) and 40+ dives prior to enrolling in the DM course, is a week to meet the minimum requirements practical then?

 

[Rose Robinson]

I accept that I am a f*** in this case.

Dody,

Not so, we learn from our experiences, and those who call themselves, ''experienced leaders'' should know better, most do, those that don't should be shunned.

You learned a valuable lesson, one that will be with you for the rest of your life.

Don't ever be afraid to say NO!

So glad the story came from you, and not our resident accident statistician.

Rose

P.S. Any diver, can call any dive, at any time, for any reason, no foul!

Let the God's gifts to scuba diving impress someone else!

 

[Swedinsidemount]

Does that 50 hours include the 40 logged dives and the CPR and First Aid courses? If so, many divers would already have those pre-requisite dives, and some might have the CPR and First Aid cert.s (e.g.: from Rescue Diver), before enrolling in the Dive Master course.

If a person has Rescue Diver (and CPR and First Aid cert.s) and 40+ dives prior to enrolling in the DM course, is a week to meet the minimum requirements practical then?

The 50 hours DOES NOT include the 40 logged dives, cpr, 1st aid... Those must be met BEFORE you begin the DM course. As i wrote earlier, if @Dody claims to have completed the DM course in one week, that means he would have had to dove 7 hours per day for a week AND complete the e-learing, paperwork, exams, and some hands on instruction with the teacher...cheers. <TG>

 

[ginti]

Here from modern PADI e-learning:
Prerequisites & Requirements
Age Requirement
18 years or older
Course Prerequisites
Rescue Diver, 40 logged dives, CPR and First Aid certification within 24 months, medical clearance to dive
Time Commitment
Approximately 50 hours

it goes by hours, about 6 hrs or so go to class room the rest in water...according to what @Dody said, (completing DM in a week) he would have to dive over 7 hours a day for a week PLUS e-learning, the exams, and some hands-on experience with an instructor...<TG>

That's not nice of you. Anyone can go here: Divemaster | PADI

Now...
1) where is it written that these approximately 50hrs are in the water?
2) where is it written that one MUST satisfy that amount of time?

There is a big difference between what people usually do is what people MUST do. I would like to understand what people MUST do, that is, the absolute minimum requirement. Which, to be clear, I don't consider good practice, but I want to understand it.

Also, you aren't even considering the possibility that @Dody's instructor didn't follow the rules, and I do not understand why you consider this option impossible.

 

[ginti]

Does that 50 hours include the 40 logged dives and the CPR and First Aid courses? If so, many divers would already have those pre-requisite dives, and some might have the CPR and First Aid cert.s (e.g.: from Rescue Diver), before enrolling in the Dive Master course.

If a person has Rescue Diver (and CPR and First Aid cert.s) and 40+ dives prior to enrolling in the DM course, is a week to meet the minimum requirements practical then?

No, the "40 logged dives and the CPR and First Aid courses" are the minimum prerequisite...

40 dives is the prerequisite... isn't it a bit low?

EDITED: I posted by mistake without finishing

 

[Edward3c]

No, the "40 logged dives and the CPR and First Aid courses" are the minimum prerequisite...

40 dives is the prerequisite... isn't it a bit low?

EDITED: I posted by mistake without finishing

Its no good quoting PADI standards he's SSI qualified, see his profile. Had the same instructor all along.

 

[boulderjohn]

Quoting the minimum standards for starting a class as if they are the requirements for completing it is fallacious. The minimum number of dives required to begin any course is just a fairly meaningless screening tool. As many people have pointed out, two divers with the same number of dives can be at completely different levels of competency. I just checked my logbook to see what I was doing at 40 dives, and I think I would have been totally ready to start a DM course then. Others, not so much.

What matters is what you demonstrate during the class and your ability to meet the requirements for finishing it. The tech classes I teach have similar requirements for numbers of dives, and I, of course, make sure students meet those requirements. They are pretty much meaningless. On the first get acquainted dive with the student, I get a much better idea of what I need to do. I have had students who far surpassed the basic requirements with whom I have just done a bunch of fun, non-instructional dives before I took their money and actually started the class--they just weren't ready for it. In contrast, I have had more than a couple cases where the beginning tech student looked like he had already finished the class.

 

[ginti]

Its no good quoting PADI standards he's SSI qualified, see his profile. Had the same instructor all along.

Right. So here's the SSI page:
Become an SSI Dive Guide today – Upgrade to Divemaster tomorrow
The tricky thing is that there is no divemaster course on the website, just a dive guide one. The divemaster is a step forward, who can teach Ecology Programs, but I cannot find any info on the website about how to become one.

The dive guide course requires, according to the previous link:
Amount of Academic Sessions 5
Amount of Pool/Confined Water Sessions 3
Amount of Open Water Dives 3

Absolutely doable in one week; cave courses are WAY more intense, and are done in 5 to 6 days. I don't see why people must keep saying that the OP is trolling...

EDIT: I am assuming that academic sessions last hours/one day max, and dives are on/one and a half hours...

 

[ginti]

Quoting the minimum standards for starting a class as if they are the requirements for completing it is fallacious. The minimum number of dives required to begin any course is just a fairly meaningless screening tool. As many people have pointed out, two divers with the same number of dives can be at completely different levels of competency. I just checked my logbook to see what I was doing at 40 dives, and I think I would have been totally ready to start a DM course then. Others, not so much.

What matters is what you demonstrate during the class and your ability to meet the requirements for finishing it. The tech classes I teach have similar requirements for numbers of dives, and I, of course, make sure students meet those requirements. They are pretty much meaningless. On the first get acquainted dive with the student, I get a much better idea of what I need to do. I have had students who far surpassed the basic requirements with whom I have just done a bunch of fun, non-instructional dives before I took their money and actually started the class--they just weren't ready for it. In contrast, I have had more than a couple cases where the beginning tech student looked like he had already finished the class.

I only partially agree with you. Having the minimum standards for a class that low is a good way to let bad instructors do whatever they want. If the minimum is 40 dives, one shop only interested in money can potentially certify many DMs (taking their money) even if they are not ready. But the standards are satisfied, so everything is "ok".

I am sure that instructors with the right attitude, as I believe you are, do not behave like that. And I want to believe that most instructors are good, but we know this is not always the case.

Anyway, there is another discussion on the forum about this topic... my fault to bring it here, sorry