I had an interesting insight

[Garrobo]

"My buddy who seemed to be an experienced diver expressed an interest in doing a cave dive, "just to see"...in the company of an instructor."---------What's the big deal. Just like sky diving, scuba, etc. that's how we all got started isn't it? I am sure that the cave diver instructor would go over the safety aspects of the dive and take him in a relatively safe environment at first. As far as being in Japan while the great earthquake was going on, earthquakes are an everyday occurence over there and if you weren't in the primary quake zone, so what?

 

[CuNanoTube]

I would never go untrained into a cave, but I am interested. Probably because I am still in my "I'm Invincible" years.
That is not to say I go out of my way.... well yes, I have taken huge risks in sports other than SCUBA. My favourite was getting up to 150km/h skiing then wiping out. Broke my binding on one ski, but it was the coolest wipe-out I have ever experienced. I also Ice bike and played high level football for many years. Who knows, I may grow out of it, but right now adrenaline is my friend.

 

[BabyDuck]

cave diving is *not* an 'extreme' 'risk-seeking' thing to do. if you get an adrenaline rush while cave diving, something has gone seriously wrong. it is a calm, zen, relaxing thing to do.

don't try to talk people into cave diving period, but especially not with misleading info.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Isnt doing the cave class basically a trust me thing?

Not if it's taught properly. You first have to learn the basic skills outside of an overhead environment, and then apply them under progressively more demanding conditions.

The key difference is that prior to entering the cave, you are told explicitly what you will be doing and why you will be doing it. Your skills are evaluated ... and if they are lacking in any way, you don't go.

There are some prerequisites for taking a cave class ... like familiarity with a doubles setup and better-than-average buoyancy control. My instructor wouldn't take me into a cave until he was satisfied with a whole list of requirements. During the "academic" part of the class, he had me set up my rig ... then he went through every piece of gear and asked me why I set it up that way. "Because my instructor taught me to" was not an acceptable answer ... he wanted me to tell him the logic behind using the equipment as I had set it up to be used. "Trust" had nothing to do with it.

There's a big difference between going into something new with your eyes open vs just following along and doing something because "the instructor said so". A proper cave instructor knows exactly what you're capable of before they take you into the cave ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

He didn't say it wasn't a risk, just that it didn't scare him. Big difference.

The thought of doing it didn't scare him, but maybe being there in reality may make him wonder if he made the right decision.

"Scared" is a wired-in condition that's designed to prevent our minds from taking us places that our bodies are incapable of getting us out of. People who aren't "scared" of risk typically end up dying prematurely ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Peter Guy]

There is "cave diving" and "cave diving" and for the former, yes, pretty much a trust me dive, but for the latter, perhaps not-so-much.

My first "cave dive" was done in a single AL80 and led by an instructor who gave me a 15-20 minute orientation (perhaps a bit longer) on what I would see, etc. This was, of course, one of the vaunted Cenote Tours (and NWGD went with me on the second one I did). Was I "trained" as a cave diver at that point? No (although I, and Bob, certainly had more training and experience than the vast majority of people who do these tours). But even though we stayed within the Cavern Zone, we were, in fact, in a cave and we trusted our guides, AND OUR EQUIPMENT AND TRAINING, to get us safely through the experience. They were "Trust Me Dives" to some extent.

Since we have both continued on with Cave Diving, we have both gotten the instruction, prior to entering the "rest of the cave" and had much less "trust me" aspects to the training (and subsequent) dives. But, in fact, there IS an element of "trust me" in all training dives since we are being asked to do things we haven't done before.

For the diver discussed by the OP -- depending on what he does, I don't see a problem with someone doing a "cave dive" to see what it is like. I did (and made sure I stayed on the "right side" of the dreaded Cave Sign).

 

[Paladin]

Why is it idiotic? I was many times close to dead. I understand what the Japanese is telling. I have no interest in cave diving, but it also does not scare me. Being stuck in a cave and dieing does not scare me.
I don't have to proof anyone that I can do dangerous things, so I avoid anything that is dangerous. But as the Japanese tells: it does not scare me.

Believe me, it will scare you if it ever happens to you. I wasn't scared, either, until it actually happened. There is no more terrifying feeling than being alone, stuck underwater, underground, unable to move and watching your SPG needle creeping toward zero. Yes, my friend, you will be scared. Very scared.

It's been over thirty years and I still have nightmares.

 

[captain]

Do you need to eat the whole dish it see what it taste like or is just taking a bit sufficient.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There is "cave diving" and "cave diving" and for the former, yes, pretty much a trust me dive, but for the latter, perhaps not-so-much.

My first "cave dive" was done in a single AL80 and led by an instructor who gave me a 15-20 minute orientation (perhaps a bit longer) on what I would see, etc. This was, of course, one of the vaunted Cenote Tours (and NWGD went with me on the second one I did). Was I "trained" as a cave diver at that point? No (although I, and Bob, certainly had more training and experience than the vast majority of people who do these tours). But even though we stayed within the Cavern Zone, we were, in fact, in a cave and we trusted our guides, AND OUR EQUIPMENT AND TRAINING, to get us safely through the experience. They were "Trust Me Dives" to some extent.

Since we have both continued on with Cave Diving, we have both gotten the instruction, prior to entering the "rest of the cave" and had much less "trust me" aspects to the training (and subsequent) dives. But, in fact, there IS an element of "trust me" in all training dives since we are being asked to do things we haven't done before.

For the diver discussed by the OP -- depending on what he does, I don't see a problem with someone doing a "cave dive" to see what it is like. I did (and made sure I stayed on the "right side" of the dreaded Cave Sign).

Well yes ... and there are degrees of trust involved. Remember at Car Wash, the group we saw coming out of the cave zone? Everyone was on single AL80's, most with a single, small handheld light (I saw at least one who didn't even have a light), not a single one using a proper reg set for diving in caves, and lots of spastic flutter kicking and hand waving to stay off the bottom ... now that's a "trust me" event ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[beautybelow]

"Scared" is a wired-in condition that's designed to prevent our minds from taking us places that our bodies are incapable of getting us out of. People who aren't "scared" of risk typically end up dying prematurely ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

That's a pretty general statement :"People who aren't "scared" of risk typically end up dying prematurely ..." considering that being scared is such a subjective thing.

First, I am not a cave diver. But I would think that most situations that you are trying to get out of in cave diving would depend on your mind getting you out, not your body.

With this in mind, maybe being scared before even starting the process could affect how you think during a given situation. Cave diving or anything else for that matter.