I think WetSuits are Safer and Better than Dry suits for the vast majority of divers

[danvolker]

Dan, I think Rob has a point; your writings are pertinent to the diving you do in the area where you dive, and with the objectives you have for diving. I tried to point out in my earlier post that not everybody dives in those conditions or has those objectives. You are quite welcome to insist that people doing the dives you describe with you dive wet; personally, were I to do what you describe, I would use a scooter.

You started the thread by saying that you think wetsuits are SAFER. I think that is true, if the diver has poor dry suit skills. Most of us who own dry suits learn to dive them.

Lynn,
I began this by stating I was talking about warm water diving for recreational divers..... I never aimed this at Cave divers, or divers from the PNW, Canada, Finland, or even Catalina. On the other hand, the divers I did aim this at, constitute a vastly larger number of people than does the cold water areas just mentioned. I am talking about tourism destinations the have divers running 7 days a week, often with 7 to 20 boats running 2 or more trips per day...How many cold water locations do that? We have 30 miles of reef line just in Palm Beach, and you can add the huge dive areas of Lauderdale, Miami, and the Keys. The large number of divers is not evident to us when underwater--divers are spread out so much it still feels like it is wilderness....the point being....there is a huge market for divers that would want to be warmer, and dry suits would be a poor choice for them...I could see Dive Shops adding the heated suits to their rental gear, and dramatically altering the experience of winter diving in Florida, and not damaging already challenged skill sets

Again, I know lots of divers..most divers, think they should only swim slowly....I really do get that. I don't want to change this either.....What I do want to stress is the safety factor of actually BEING ABLE TO SWIM FAST, if an emergency presents itself. Between seeing a diver in distress-up current or fairly far away with no current, or anchor line return trips that the diver never thought would be hard--but were...there are dozens of scenarios I have seen in diving heavily for over 4 decades....I am confident when I say that it is more likely that a diver will find themself unable to propel themselves to a place they need to--in what will then become a potential emergency scenario, because they can only swim slowly--and they have this brief but critical moment that they need speed.....This is far more important to most recreational divers than it is given credit for--in fact, this is largely ignored by the dive industry as a whole. Drysuits exacerbate that problem, and the scooter solution is not always viable.....even though I have a Gavin scooter, sometimes it is too much of a pain to drag it on some dive trips, and on some boats there is just not room for it. As a solution, it is about $3000 more than most divers will want to spend also.

The divers I aimed this post at....are recreational divers in Florida and the Caribbean, that either own a wetsuit, or they RENT wetsuits....Or they are a shop that rents wetsuits.

If you see me shoot video, on a 60 minute dive I may be running at one quarter of a mile per hour or slower for 90% of the dive. Maybe even for all but 20 seconds of a hour long dive.....but I refuse to be prevented by some nasty DUI drysuit, from getting the shot I want because I can only swim at half my normal speed with it. So yeah, I personally have a hatred for the liabilities of a Drysuit for ME. But that was not what the post was about...the issues I raised are not my issues except the part about the top speed for filming big marine life ( maybe this was 5% of what I was ranting about

 

[RJP]

The divers I aimed this post at....are recreational divers in Florida and the Caribbean, that either own a wetsuit, or they RENT wetsuits....Or they are a shop that rents wetsuits.

I've only ever seen one other diver, besides me, diving dry in the Caribbean. And I should actual say I've only ever see one "beside me" because the only other diver I've ever seen diving dry in the Caribbean is my buddy, David.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Diver0001, I can use a Drysuit as well as most of the people teaching Drysuits......You have no idea about my diving skills, but I was one of George Irvine's most prefferred buddies on any extreme tech dive in the Ocean back when he was doing the most extreme dives in the world. I had to use a dry suit on tech dives due to depth and uselessness of wetsuits at 280.

There is no GUE diver that will comfortably swim with my buddies and I in Wetsuits,if they are in a Dry suit, ( my evil twin in a drysuit would be left behind as well) .... unless we are going slow--which will happen on some dives...on other dives, we will go slow over a target rich area--say on the offshore reef Fingers at 95 feet( for example), do this for 15 minutes, then swim up over the 40 foot crown, and accross to the inshore ledge 200 yards sideways to the current and depth of 55 feet on bottom....( west of the outside ledge)...this is point A to Point B travel, and the crown has nothing on it that we are PLANNING on shooting on some days--so the idea is to cross it at a comfortable cruising pace....Every single Dry suit diver on this board, would be crossing so slowly, that it would be an annoyance to be forced into wasting time waiting for them, and the entire time we go slow with them, it means we lose lots of inshore ledge from the down current drift....The issue is gear that makes you a liability to buddies.

Maybe you should get some more dives under your belt before you make such foolish projections about me or anyone else you have not dove with.
And certainly you should stick to still water dive sites where your skill level will allow you to be comfortable with your drysuit .

Dan V. is correct in his opinion and I concur from practical objective experience.

I've done most of all my deep wreck tech diving with mandatory decompression over the past seven years in tropical Indo-Pacific Regiions, utilizing only a 0.5mm skinsuit with a 3mm hooded vest underneath, in 28 to 30deg C waters. The thought of "stewing" in my own sweat in a drysuit in such warm water conditions is disgusting --actually I probably would end up getting chilled on a long deco profile in my own perspiration soaked undergarments (and I regularly do get cold for the same reason even drysuit diving here in temperate SoCal home waters).

My solution in both instances is to use a UTD heated cummerbund belt as needed --UTD Equipment Solar Heating Systems

(22 Nov and out to Palau & Truk Lagoon again --fourth trip to Truk in 12 months--:blinking

 

[al248005]

Better because they cost a fraction of what drysuits cost...[/FONT]

Ohio diver here and +1 for the drysuit. If you look at the cost of a drysuit over the course of a long period of time...drysuits are actually cheaper in the long run. Drysuits can last 10x's as long as a wetsuit can. All that needs to be done to them are minor repairs (seal replacement, spot patching of hole here or there, and zipper if kept long enough). Drysuits might cost 3xs as much as a new wetsuit up front but look at the life expectancy of each. Wetsuits after so many dives become compressed and lose insulating properties whereas drysuits don't.

 

[Tigerman]

...
The thought of "stewing" in my own sweat in a drysuit in such warm water conditions is disgusting --actually I probably would end up getting chilled on a long deco profile in my own perspiration soaked undergarments (and I regularly do get cold for the same reason even drysuit diving here in temperate SoCal home waters).
...

Your perspiration being disgusting is of course a matter of personal opinion.
The second part however is WRONG. If you get cold because youre sweating, youre wearing the wrong undergarments..

 

[Kevrumbo]

Your perspiration being disgusting is of course a matter of personal opinion.
The second part however is WRONG. If you get cold because youre sweating, youre wearing the wrong undergarments..

I SWEAT IS A MATTER OF FACT . . .AND I SWEAT WHILE GEARING UP & GETTING INTO MY DRYSUIT (even here in wonderfully temperate SoCal homewaters)!!!

Come here, scratch and smell & tell me I'm wrong. . .

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Granting that a drysuit would probably not be a good exposure pro choice for a group of spearos trying to cover a lot of ground, I don't see much there there as to the safety argument. While a wetsuited Dan V. plus his preferred fins can probably handle a serious current that he'd not be able to swim against in a drysuit, the fact of the matter is that most divers in standard scuba fins are going to be out of luck trying to swim against most currents regardless of what they're wearing. That goes double for tech divers wearing doubles and multiple stages.

And it's not a core safety issue, because non-ubermench divers respect current and avoid it, rather than worrying how they can best swim against it (because they know that streamlined or not, they basically can't). Dan and his aquajock buddies 'at the margins' dive considerations are irrelevant to the safety needs of the other 99.99% of divers.

 

[Tigerman]

I SWEAT IS A MATTER OF FACT . . .AND I SWEAT WHILE GEARING UP & GETTING INTO MY DRYSUIT (even here in wonderfully temperate SoCal homewaters)!!!

Come here, scratch and smell & tell me I'm wrong. . .

Yes, we sweat, but that dont change the fact that if it make you freeze you have the wrong undergarments.
Theres some wonderful undergarments to be had that stay warm when wet and the typical synthetics-covered fleeze undergarments AINT IT..

 

[Kevrumbo]

Yes, we sweat, but that dont change the fact that if it make you freeze you have the wrong undergarments.
Theres some wonderful undergarments to be had that stay warm when wet and the typical synthetics-covered fleeze undergarments AINT IT..

It doesn't matter if you have "wicking" base layers and a thinsulate/polartec/gore-tex 400gm jumpsuit. If you sweat profusely enough like I do, you will saturate your own undergarments with perspiration and become hypothermic. The only way to counter this is with an active battery powered heated & waterproof undergarment --see medical condition hyperhydrosis



y

 

[Diver0001]

So in response to getting called on it, you respond with

a) name dropping
b) chest thumping
c) ad hominem

Actually, that second part does say something. Where as you initially started this thread claiming that drysuits were a safety hazard, this last post seems to make clear that the real issue is that it frustrates you to have to slow down if you're diving with someone in a drysuit. That does say something interesting and I suspect we have a glimpse into what prompted you to start this thread

Anyway, I've said what I wanted to say. At this point the other people reading this thread will have to decide for themselves how it looks to them.

R..

Diver0001, I can use a Drysuit as well as most of the people teaching Drysuits......You have no idea about my diving skills, but I was one of George Irvine's most prefferred buddies on any extreme tech dive in the Ocean back when he was doing the most extreme dives in the world. I had to use a dry suit on tech dives due to depth and uselessness of wetsuits at 280.

There is no GUE diver that will comfortably swim with my buddies and I in Wetsuits,if they are in a Dry suit, ( my evil twin in a drysuit would be left behind as well) .... unless we are going slow--which will happen on some dives...on other dives, we will go slow over a target rich area--say on the offshore reef Fingers at 95 feet( for example), do this for 15 minutes, then swim up over the 40 foot crown, and accross to the inshore ledge 200 yards sideways to the current and depth of 55 feet on bottom....( west of the outside ledge)...this is point A to Point B travel, and the crown has nothing on it that we are PLANNING on shooting on some days--so the idea is to cross it at a comfortable cruising pace....Every single Dry suit diver on this board, would be crossing so slowly, that it would be an annoyance to be forced into wasting time waiting for them, and the entire time we go slow with them, it means we lose lots of inshore ledge from the down current drift....The issue is gear that makes you a liability to buddies.

Maybe you should get some more dives under your belt before you make such foolish projections about me or anyone else you have not dove with.
And certainly you should stick to still water dive sites where your skill level will allow you to be comfortable with your drysuit .