I want to disagree with the version of the rule of thirds from Point 1 of your post. It shouldn't take nearly 1/3 of your air to descend. And on a deep dive, depending on your air consumption, it can take more than 1/3 of your air to ascend, particularly if you have to share air in an emergency. The version of rule of thirds I was taught was 1/3 for the going out, 1/3 for coming back, and 1/3 for reserve. But also, I think that there are other better approaches to gas management in this thread, like rock bottom.
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I want to disagree with the version of the rule of thirds from Point 1 of your post. It shouldn't take nearly 1/3 of your air to descend. And on a deep dive, depending on your air consumption, it can take more than 1/3 of your air to ascend, particularly if you have to share air in an emergency. The version of rule of thirds I was taught was 1/3 for the going out, 1/3 for coming back, and 1/3 for reserve. But also, I think that there are other better approaches to gas management in this thread, like rock bottom.
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I'll start this with a caveat that I have not read the whole thread.
That said I have read far enough to learn they had enough time under water that they should have known better.
I have also seen a bit of bashing of short training times. Some of the points made are valid in my eyes, but at least in the first few pages there was something that was also missed.
I was taught in my PADI course, and by every more experienced diver I ever dove with (which was a fairly considerable number) that my course gets me on the boat, but I have a personal responsibility to myself and my buddy to regularly practice every skill I was taught.
I start dives with a full plan. I spend part of every dive day going through drills to include dumping weights (in the very shallows, or simulated if on a boat), oral inflation, and on and on. It does not mean I'll never panic or have an OOA situation I can't handle effectively. But it does mean that my initial certification class was not the END of my training -- even if I had not gone on to take additional courses.
Ultimately this diver (and others like her) died because they did something against their initial training -- and that happens to people much more frequently when they fail to practice what they were taught regularly.
I will not assume that she failed to practice. I will state that the idea that a short initial training time inevitably leads to such results misses the responsibility the diver has to continue their training, formally or informally after the card is issued.
I have never once taken a class, from any agency at any locale, where the importance of continued and consistant practice of the skills taught was not emphasised repeatedly.
That said I have read far enough to learn they had enough time under water that they should have known better.
I have also seen a bit of bashing of short training times. Some of the points made are valid in my eyes, but at least in the first few pages there was something that was also missed.
I was taught in my PADI course, and by every more experienced diver I ever dove with (which was a fairly considerable number) that my course gets me on the boat, but I have a personal responsibility to myself and my buddy to regularly practice every skill I was taught.
I start dives with a full plan. I spend part of every dive day going through drills to include dumping weights (in the very shallows, or simulated if on a boat), oral inflation, and on and on. It does not mean I'll never panic or have an OOA situation I can't handle effectively. But it does mean that my initial certification class was not the END of my training -- even if I had not gone on to take additional courses.
Ultimately this diver (and others like her) died because they did something against their initial training -- and that happens to people much more frequently when they fail to practice what they were taught regularly.
I will not assume that she failed to practice. I will state that the idea that a short initial training time inevitably leads to such results misses the responsibility the diver has to continue their training, formally or informally after the card is issued.
I have never once taken a class, from any agency at any locale, where the importance of continued and consistant practice of the skills taught was not emphasised repeatedly.
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The average adult in this country admits to not understand how to balance their checkbook.
The USA has one of the worst education systems in the developed world, particularly in areas of mathematics.
The requirements for graduation in most school systems is entry level algebra.
The average dive student is approaching middle age, meaning they have not had to do basic math in many years.
The idea that the average student can easily handle basic math problems is a huge assumption that is not supported by evidence.
ScubaSteve
Wow.....what a DB
OK so let's put a twist on that and ask a question. If the person of which we are speaking has gone through ALL of their OW training plus whatever schooling and life experience they have, but still cannot do basic math to perform simple gas management. Do you believe they were shorted through the OW certification process? Or, do you believe that no OW diver should ever need (or be expected to know) to know how to perform simple gas management?
This question is not aimed at only you BTW. I just think that if someone cannot perform specific dive related math problems (basic ones) then perhaps they should be practising more. I believe that math skill should be part of a divers skill bag just like mask removal and reg retrieval. This is, however, just my opinion.
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Based on my experiences teaching gas management in my AOW class, I would say that too many instructors underestimate what students are capable of learning.
There's a condensed version of my curriculum posted on my website ... you can evaluate for yourself the level of "math" involved.
In five years of teaching this class almost monthly ... in addition to giving perhaps two dozen seminars independent of classes ... I've yet to have a student not "get it" ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
I think you greatly underestimate the middle aged mind.
We have figured out the Internet, ScubaBoard, MySpace, eBay, Facebook, Blogging and Twitter. We all have two or more computers and a phone that has more computing power than the Apollo Spacecraft. We also know how to use Excel, AutoCad, Photoshop and do our banking and bill paying on-line.
I think that if we can afford to dive and take on some additional classes we should be able to do some simple math.
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As soon as you bring cubic feet into the discussion, you've lost a large percentage of your audience. But you don't need to do that in order to discuss BASIC gas management.
Yet, the people here who want to speak to basic gas management start pointing to articles about calculating rock bottom pressures. That is quite a lot to ask of the average new dive student. Particularly in an agency class setting which is where 99% of new divers are certified if for no other reason than those are the instructors a student is likely to find.
Frankly, if math were required to be apart of the diver skill bag, my wife would not be diving -- anything more complicated than the mere basics simply turn her off. And she's not a stupid person -- she has multiple degrees in multiple fields. She just doesn't do math.
She's hardly alone in that position.
I think you greatly underestimate the middle aged mind.
We have figured out the Internet, ScubaBoard, MySpace, eBay, Facebook, Blogging and Twitter. We all have two or more computers and a phone that has more computing power than the Apollo Spacecraft. We also know how to use Excel, AutoCad, Photoshop and do our banking and bill paying on-line.
I think that if we can afford to dive and take on some additional classes we should be able to do some simple math.
I would suggest you greatly over-estimate what constitutes an average person's abilities and education levels, and confuse the ability to use trivial chat software for the ability to understand and work with geometry problems.
The average 40 year old in this country can not come close to performing well on standardized math tests. In 2 days of class room time the average person is not going to be doing algebra problems using cu^3ft/s.
Moreover, basic, entry level gas management need not be taught within the framework of any mathematics.
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What has been the average education level of your students, and how does that compare to the national average?
What percentage of your students worked in fields with significant mathematical or logic abilities where used regularly. How does that compare with the national average?
Given that you don't teach from within a typical class setting, are your students representative of the average dive student in this country in terms of education and employment?
This is a good point. Even if people were very skilled in math in high school, unless they went into a field in which math is practiced regularly, it won't be too many years before most of their math skills (and their confidence in it) disappears.
Years ago I had a brilliant high school student who went through all of our top classes before he was ready to graduate, and we set up a special independent study class for his senior year, one in which he would produce a study that he would have to defend before a panel of experts, like a scaled down Ph.D. thesis. I was his advisor.
One of his chapters included a formula he had devised, using calculus, for his project. (You won't believe its purpose!) Since my own calculus experiences were far in the past, when I saw the first draft of that chapter I went to the math department for an analysis. The calculus teacher was out of school that day, and not a single other teacher in the department could remember enough calculus to check the formula to see if it made sense.
These people had all been math majors in college.
The average person who is not a math major will forget a whole lot more than calculus while living in a world where nearly no real math is required for daily living.
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Education and employment pretty much run the gamut of anyone who would have sufficient expendable income to enjoy scuba on a regular basis.
What sets my students apart from the "average" dive student would most likely be motivation. I don't work for a dive shop. I don't advertise my classes, except in terms of discussing them on Internet forums. My students seek me out ... most were referred to me by former students. Almost to a person they are highly motivated to work at improving their skills. I would not say that they are any more mathematically inclined than the average person. In fact, it's not uncommon for one of my students to tell me that they are not a "math person". That's quite OK ... there's really not that much math involved, and with a bit of effort they are able to handle it easily.
Given sufficient motivation, the "average" person can do amazing things ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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