If you were to redo the scuba industry how would you do it?

[John C. Ratliff]

You should be able to!

As long as it is informed consent on your part. And by informed consent, I do not mean you need to be an expert on pharmacology, only that you understand that pharmacologists have identified risks, and you understand the general magnitude and nature those risks.

But, the pharmacist (or anyone else accepting your waiver) is not responsible for determining your level of understanding. They only need to determine that you are a competent adult, and that you understand that a claim to understand the risks enumerated in the waiver is a legally binding transfer of responsibility for those risks and your understanding of them.

In general, the greater your understanding of the risks of a particular activity, the greater the risk that you should be able to consent to in that activity. If you claim understanding in a legal document (a waiver), you should be legally responsible for any deficiency in your understanding.

That’s simply not how it works in pharmacy.

SeaRat

 

[L13]

I see. You are calling for a 30+ page liability waiver in which the diver signs off on anything that could possibly happen on a dive trip.

Initials_______________ I understand the divemaster or captain may go insane during the surface interval and drill out my right eye with a corkscrew.

No, stick with the 1-page. Don't waive all the other stuff, that way they are still liable for the stuff they really should be. (did you notice the wink and laugh emoji's?)

 

[L13]

That’s simply not how it works in pharmacy.

SeaRat

This thread is not about "how it works", it is "if you could make it work differently, how would it be different".

 

[ofg-1]

When I take over, all open water training dives will be done in the nude, over a bottom of fire coral and urchins. If you cant control your buoyancy with that kind of motivation, then you deserve a few new piercings.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

This thread is not about "how it works", it is "if you could make it work differently, how would it be different".

I didn't read this entire thread......but my take is that the current OW courses are woefully insufficient and they need to really revaluate the term "Mastery" of skills.

I would also have seperate..... or at least an "endorsement" on certifications for cold water vs warm water diving.....

My analogy is that a student certified in the cold, low vis, high current water can easily transition to warm tropical water but not the other way around. Is kinda like a 16 year old passing and getting their driver's licence in an automatic transmission Kia..... and then technically, they can legally go and rent a big U-Haul truck with a stick shift / clutch...... and legally drive it up the steep streets of downtown Seattle.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This thread is not about "how it works", it is "if you could make it work differently, how would it be different".

So, can we go down the road of me being elected World Dominator?

As I'll fix sh!t up fast!

 

[ofg-1]

So, can we go down the road of me being elected World Dominator?

Only if you can prove you are an AI bot. I, for one, welcome our new AI overlords.

 

[SlugLife]

So, can we go down the road of me being elected World Dominator?

As I'll fix sh!t up fast!

You can't be any worse than the people who currently hold those positions.

Only if you can prove you are an AI bot. I, for one, welcome our new AI overlords.

Oh no, the chatbots are spreading like lionfish, someone get the speargun!

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

My main restriction up here in the Pac NW is that I don't have my own compressor......or ability to "create" custom gas mixes....other than by transfil and then analysing. Other than that, I have my own boat and my own rules. I only dive from my boat with friends that I trust

 

[Belzelbub]

I didn't read this entire thread......but my take is that the current OW courses are woefully insufficient and they need to really revaluate the term "Mastery" of skills.

I agree that there is an issue, but I’m not sure it’s with the courses themselves.

The courses are able to produce competent divers. Ultimately, it ends up in the hands of the instructor and the student. Unless someone complains, the agencies aren’t really aware that an instructor may not be following standards. And who is to tell them. The student is probably not an expert in the standards of the course. So, if the student ends the course and winds up with an OW cert, who are they to know if their training was sufficient or not.

The problem is that there is a lot of trust, that may not be earned. There should be some oversight to ensure standards are followed. At work, I’ve dealt with a lot of industry certifications. We use companies that specialize in certifying other companies to certain ISO, AS, SAE, etc. standards. They do this by auditing. On a regular basis, these certifying agencies get audited themselves. Sometimes an auditor from another company witnesses an audit. This isn’t perfect, but is better than what happens in the scuba industry.

The agencies should take pride in the skills of the divers they certify. As an alternative to the proposal in the OP, the agencies could also employ secret students. Basically, an agency employee that audits a course/instructor without their knowledge. When I was in high school, I worked in retail. Occasionally, we would have a secret shopper come in to evaluate the store and employees.

This would be difficult given the number of affiliated shops, but not impossible. The agencies would not necessarily need to ”secret shop” every LDS. If word got out of revocations or suspensions, that might improve training.

The problem is that currently there is little incentive to do anything like that. Suspending or revoking affiliations will hit the bottom line of the agency, as they will no longer get a cut of the certifications the shop puts out. So, until the consumer demands better, I don’t see this changing. Unless the training is absolutely atrocious, the student doesn’t know any better.