Instructors - Agencies Split from overweight

[Ann Marie]

Yes, on certain OW dives certified assistants are allowed to lead tours at a ratio of two divers per certified assistant (not the same ratio of the class).

On OW dive 1 it is not 'required' for students to have buoyancy control BUT if you read the goals and the recommended techniques for the dive both address the need for the student to use buoyancy control. A good instructor would see that his/her students were off the bottom.

Granted not everything is 'in bold' and not all instructors teach to the minimum standards. Like everythink in life, you have people that will try and get by with doing the minimums, SCUBA unfortunately is no different.

 

[Walter]

It's been pointed out to me by someone I greatly respect that the side discussion in which I've been involved "is adding nothing of substance to the thread." I apologize to all for my participation. I was wrong to let it go on so long.

 

[Hammerhead]

I'm not sure which is more depressing, the death that - after all - started this thread, or the fact that this has devolved into an argument about semantics / being quoted out of context / being misquoted / misunderstanding certifying agencies processes etc. etc . etc add ****ing nauseum.

Get a grip, people.

If there has been a thread more deserving of deletion (or heavy moderation) in the last year, I'm lucky enough not to have read it.

Back to the PPD for me.

As you were.

Edit

It's been pointed out to me by someone I greatly respect that the side discussion in which I've been involved "is adding nothing of substance to the thread." I apologize to all for my participation. I was wrong to let it go on so long.

Amen









oh









and








RIP

 

[Wayward Son]

I think training stds are a valid discussion. It just seems to me that in this thread they've been utterly irrelevant to the incident & the fight over them here is equivalent to dancing on her grave before she's even in it.

Tasteless & disgusting as well as contributing nothing to the discussion of the actual incident.

 

[Thalassamania]

... engaged in trying to prove that the standard doesn't mean what it says it means. I would say quattro, but one is not even an instructor. Instead of being GLAD that the standard is there, we are now delving into semantics or asking whether it is "bold" or not. It's either there or it's not. The standards require depth control or they don't.

It's good to have the phrase in question in the standards but, as we determined once before, it is toothless. Once you parse the redefinition of "mastery" all standards "requirements" are mystically changed into something less.

BTW: "Quattro" is a fin, "quarto" is the "gang of four" term you're looking for (actually the four pages in a book created from a standard size sheet of paper).

I know what I think a safe attitude is but that doesn't really answer the question I asked does it. ok, You said that NAUI wants you to be willing to send your grandmother out diving with a student you intent to certify? That sounds rather subjective. How are you to decide whether or not your willing to do that? What are you required to objectively MEaSURE?

Mike, it is subjective. The grandmother thing is just an extension of the NAUI Credo, "Would I trust the person to teach my loved ones to dive."

 

[SparticleBrane]

I suppose that since I'm not an instructor, I don't know how to read the standards?
Darn, guess I need to stop volunteering with classes then.

 

[Hammerhead]

I think training stds are a valid discussion. It just seems to me that in this thread they've been utterly irrelevant to the incident & the fight over them here is equivalent to dancing on her grave before she's even in it.

Tasteless & disgusting as well as contributing nothing to the discussion of the actual incident.

"stds" are a different issue.


Seriously, this is getting out of hand, and Wayward's post is spot on, in my opinion.

Edit.

BTW: "Quattro" is a fin, "quarto" is the "gang of four" term you're looking for (actually the four pages in a book created from a standard size sheet of paper).

WHAT IS THIS DRIVEL AND HOW THE HELL IS IT RELEVANT?

 

[Steve R]

I suppose that since I'm not an instructor, I don't know how to read the standards?
Darn, guess I need to stop volunteering with classes then.

lol, That's just a very lame attempt to stifle your input, to make it seem less important.

It's an agency ploy as well, just so you know where it's coming from. You can't have a 'bright idea' as a DM or regular diver (Well unless it's a real stupid bright idea, then they're OK with it because it's probably already in the standards, like no mix diving/training allowed until 150-165ft+ type of stuff and all the reasons why that is just crazy-talk), you have to step up to the plate and become an Instructor (please note the capital "I"), then you're qualified to say this and that.

Wait, there's another shoe to drop,......then you'd find out that as an instructor (note the lower-case "i", see how easy that was?) you need to toe the party line as a top priority, and then maybe to get somewhere with pig-headed farm animals at HQ you need to become a CD or some such animal,....so toss more time an money into it, and only then might what you say be considered,....lol.

From empiracle evidence I find at that point you've become so brain-dead your defending situtation set up by the agency like 100ft dives in 39 degree water and 15ft of vis for an AOW class student with 8-9 life-time dives to his name (who's biggest dive to that point was 35mins at 20ft and 75 degrees) thinking it's actually OK......even when he dies. Hey "$hiite happens" is the most often quoted piece after an event like that. :10:

 

[Thalassamania]

lol, That's just a very lame attempt to stifle your input, to make it seem less important.

It's an agency ploy as well. You can't have a 'bright idea' as a DM, you have to step up to the plate and become an instructor, then you're qualified to say this and that.

Wait, there's another shoe to drop,......then you'd find out that as an instructor you need to toe the party line, and then maybe to get somewhere with pig-headed farm animals at HQ you need to become a CD or some such animal,....so toss more time an money into it, and only then might what you say be considered,....lol.

From empiracle evidence I find at that point you've become so brain-dead your defending situtation set up by the agency like 100ft dives in 39 degree water and 15ft of vis for an AOW class student with 8-9 life-time dives to his name thinking it's actually OK......even when he dies. Hey "$hiite happens" is the most often quoted piece after an event like that. :10:

Yep ... you're not allowed to say that the Emperor's naked until you've demonstrated conclusively that you're self delusional enough to see his clothes. Makes great sense.

 

[Missdirected]

I think training stds are a valid discussion. It just seems to me that in this thread they've been utterly irrelevant to the incident & the fight over them here is equivalent to dancing on her grave before she's even in it.

Tasteless & disgusting as well as contributing nothing to the discussion of the actual incident.

:yelclap: this entire discussion needs to be split-off.