I keep seeing these so-called integrated inflator on BCs (Mares Airtrim, Seac Sub Air Control/Oleo-pneumatic inflator and Scubapro Integrated Inflation System etc.) - they eliminate the corrugated hose and replace them with chest/waist level buttons. Just interested to hear what people think about them - has anyone had any experiences with these devices that theyd like to share?
Integrated Inflators?
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Parrothead_Diver
Contributor
I have not used one of these. But the one thing that I have heard is that the dump valve is pneumatically operated, which means in an OOA situation you would not be able to dump air from the BC on assent.
And what about manual oral inflation?
And what about manual oral inflation?
DavidHickey
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Same story here, never have tried one in Water, but I owned a Mares Morphos Pro. After having it for a while I just decided I did not want to mess with it. Even though I'm probably wrong it just looked like more that could go wrong and looked more delicate than a regular inflator. Plus I figured its probably safer to keep things standard if I'm going to dive with buddies who are not familiar with the air trim. I sold it on Ebay last week and bought a Zeagle Ranger LTD instead. Hopefully I made the right move. Good luck
Fly N Dive
Contributor
i just got the SeaQuest Fusion in sep/oct and have only put two real dives on it as well as a few pool sesions, as for the inflator, its just a drysuit inflator on a bc, it works very well. i dont have the pneumatically operated valves, just 3 dumps, one sholder and two on the bottom. the dump valves are very similar if not the same as the ones on other seaquest/aqualung bcd's.
i like the design, and am very happy with my purchase.
as for the oral infation, my bc has a long tube with a one way valve, its not any more dificult than a normal oral inflator
i like the design, and am very happy with my purchase.
as for the oral infation, my bc has a long tube with a one way valve, its not any more dificult than a normal oral inflator
I've been looking at some of these systems as an option for my new BCD. You call them "integrated" inflators, but there are quite a few systems out there. If I'm not mistaken these are the main systems and their differences:
Mares Airtrim and Seac Sub Air Control:
These systems are alike, since they both use pneumatic valves. Inflation and dumping is done using two buttons on the BCD. The dump button connects to two dump valve (top and bottom) through a pneumatic system. Some (older) Mares bcd's only have one top valve, which makes dumping when inverted more difficult. The downside of pneumatic valves, as mentioned, is that they don't work in an out of air situation. First of all you shouldn't get yourself in this situation, but if you do, you can still dump air using a normal pull-cord dump valve on the right shoulder. So rest asured, dumping is always possible.
Cressi Flight Control System:
Like Mares and Seac Sub, Cressi uses two buttons for inflation and dumping. The difference is that the dump button is not connected to a pneumatic valve, but to a normal valve, using a steel wire. The dump button therefor works in any situation. The downside is that the system is only connected to one valve on the left shoulder, so dumping when inverted is more difficult. Another downside of the Cressi system is that the buttons are not attached directly to the bcd, but they stick out a little. Seems to me like it can easily drag through the sand or get stuck behind something, but that's just my 2cents.
Scubapro, SeaQuest and other systems:
If i'm not mistaken all other system than the Mares, Seac sub and Cressi systems, that get rid of the corrogated hose are basically the same: Inflation is done with a button on the BCD, like a dry-suit inflation button (actually, some are litteraly standard dry-suit buttons). Dumping however is not done with a button on the bcd, but with the normal pull-cord valves located at the normal places. The system works in every situation, but the downside is you have different locations to pull when you're in different positions. However, some (or maybe a lot of) people already use the pull-cord valves instead of having to hold the corrugated hose up, so nothing changes for them, except the bulky inflator is replaced by a sleak button.
So, as i see it:
- if you want to get rid of the inflator and be able to inflate and dump in any position without having to look for the right button/cord: Use Mares of Seac Sub
- if you don't trust the pneumatic system, and don't mind dumping being more difficult when inverted: Use Cressi
- If you never use the corrugated hose for dumping anyway and you don't mind using normal pull-cords: use one of the other systems
- If you don't trust any of these systems: stick with a corrugated hose. But keep an open mind, these systems aren't invented for nothing. I read a lot of comments about these systems not working perfectly in every position, safety issues etc. from people who haven't tried them or know anyone that has, but just make assumptions. I haven't read many negative comments from people that actually tried them, most are quite enthousiastic.
Just my opinion, don't have all the answers
Mares Airtrim and Seac Sub Air Control:
These systems are alike, since they both use pneumatic valves. Inflation and dumping is done using two buttons on the BCD. The dump button connects to two dump valve (top and bottom) through a pneumatic system. Some (older) Mares bcd's only have one top valve, which makes dumping when inverted more difficult. The downside of pneumatic valves, as mentioned, is that they don't work in an out of air situation. First of all you shouldn't get yourself in this situation, but if you do, you can still dump air using a normal pull-cord dump valve on the right shoulder. So rest asured, dumping is always possible.
Cressi Flight Control System:
Like Mares and Seac Sub, Cressi uses two buttons for inflation and dumping. The difference is that the dump button is not connected to a pneumatic valve, but to a normal valve, using a steel wire. The dump button therefor works in any situation. The downside is that the system is only connected to one valve on the left shoulder, so dumping when inverted is more difficult. Another downside of the Cressi system is that the buttons are not attached directly to the bcd, but they stick out a little. Seems to me like it can easily drag through the sand or get stuck behind something, but that's just my 2cents.
Scubapro, SeaQuest and other systems:
If i'm not mistaken all other system than the Mares, Seac sub and Cressi systems, that get rid of the corrogated hose are basically the same: Inflation is done with a button on the BCD, like a dry-suit inflation button (actually, some are litteraly standard dry-suit buttons). Dumping however is not done with a button on the bcd, but with the normal pull-cord valves located at the normal places. The system works in every situation, but the downside is you have different locations to pull when you're in different positions. However, some (or maybe a lot of) people already use the pull-cord valves instead of having to hold the corrugated hose up, so nothing changes for them, except the bulky inflator is replaced by a sleak button.
So, as i see it:
- if you want to get rid of the inflator and be able to inflate and dump in any position without having to look for the right button/cord: Use Mares of Seac Sub
- if you don't trust the pneumatic system, and don't mind dumping being more difficult when inverted: Use Cressi
- If you never use the corrugated hose for dumping anyway and you don't mind using normal pull-cords: use one of the other systems
- If you don't trust any of these systems: stick with a corrugated hose. But keep an open mind, these systems aren't invented for nothing. I read a lot of comments about these systems not working perfectly in every position, safety issues etc. from people who haven't tried them or know anyone that has, but just make assumptions. I haven't read many negative comments from people that actually tried them, most are quite enthousiastic.
Just my opinion, don't have all the answers
simonk999
Contributor
Mares is already on their 2nd generation of the "integrated inflator" thing. I've had one of the 1st gen (a dragonfly) and now on the 2nd (Morphos pro). The differences seem minor, but I don't know whether any internal/unseen changes were made. What's apparant is changes to button size and coloring.
Basically, the buttons and button housing cannot be described as anything different from the buttons and mechanisms of the corrugated hose, other than one is fixed and the other is free to float around.
I suppose one can argue of the failure mechanisms of the internal piping of the Mares system, but it seems well thought out and put together from what I've seen -- stainless wire-wrapped plastic hoses are the basis for the pneumatic operation of the valves. Considering stories of the corrugated hose being pulled off the valve, I'd put the chance of failure as probably pretty equal at worst, and arguably better, since the internal piping isn't subject to being pulled all the time.
Plus, it is only the opening of the valve to dump air that is controlled pneumatically; inflation is directly into the bc from the fixed housing. I'd say this is less prone to failure than the corrugated hose.
The Morphos Pro has two manual dumps, one shoulder and one rear, for alternative methods of deflation. I've actually found it useful to use these as primary methods in two cases: deflation for initial descent (pulling the cord opens the valve more than the pnuematics for quicker deflation) and when inverted, sometimes you need to use the manual rear one because it's a U-shaped bladder, thus you may need to vent air from the side that doesn't have the pnuematically operated valve.
Another argument made against these mechanisms is their potential unfamiliarity to your buddy and/or other divers in an emergency situation. I would suggest that because corrugated hose buttons can be found in non-standardized configurations, this problem is not unique to these newer mechanisms. Mares' new color coded buttons (i.e. yellow for deflate, both for the button and the shoulder pull-dump toggle) are helpful in this regard.
Anyway, to sum up, I think these things are quite nice.
Basically, the buttons and button housing cannot be described as anything different from the buttons and mechanisms of the corrugated hose, other than one is fixed and the other is free to float around.
I suppose one can argue of the failure mechanisms of the internal piping of the Mares system, but it seems well thought out and put together from what I've seen -- stainless wire-wrapped plastic hoses are the basis for the pneumatic operation of the valves. Considering stories of the corrugated hose being pulled off the valve, I'd put the chance of failure as probably pretty equal at worst, and arguably better, since the internal piping isn't subject to being pulled all the time.
Plus, it is only the opening of the valve to dump air that is controlled pneumatically; inflation is directly into the bc from the fixed housing. I'd say this is less prone to failure than the corrugated hose.
The Morphos Pro has two manual dumps, one shoulder and one rear, for alternative methods of deflation. I've actually found it useful to use these as primary methods in two cases: deflation for initial descent (pulling the cord opens the valve more than the pnuematics for quicker deflation) and when inverted, sometimes you need to use the manual rear one because it's a U-shaped bladder, thus you may need to vent air from the side that doesn't have the pnuematically operated valve.
Another argument made against these mechanisms is their potential unfamiliarity to your buddy and/or other divers in an emergency situation. I would suggest that because corrugated hose buttons can be found in non-standardized configurations, this problem is not unique to these newer mechanisms. Mares' new color coded buttons (i.e. yellow for deflate, both for the button and the shoulder pull-dump toggle) are helpful in this regard.
Anyway, to sum up, I think these things are quite nice.
Remember that BWARF bit they taught you in your Open Water course?
With all of these new technologies, it's more necessary then ever when diving with new buddies / new equipment.
I can think of all sorts of problems that could arise from assuming your buddy is diving with "standard" dive gear, all avoidable with a proper BWARF.
-B
With all of these new technologies, it's more necessary then ever when diving with new buddies / new equipment.
I can think of all sorts of problems that could arise from assuming your buddy is diving with "standard" dive gear, all avoidable with a proper BWARF.
-B
vjongene
Contributor
Parrothead_Diver:
I had a Mares Morphos Twin for a month (about 5 dives), after which it got stolen in LAX airport, but that's another story. It had two manual dump valves, so that was not a problem. The oral inflation was not optimal, since you had to fish the inflator tube out of a BC pocket, but it worked.
Overall, I thought that the system worked quite well, but got a little getting used to. The pneumatic dump valve in particular let out air more rapidly than a standard corrugated hose. Having switched to a BP/W system I have had no further experience.
MaresMan1
Contributor
I have to agree with simonk999. I have been using my Morphos for 2 yrs now and have had no problems. Works great, very simple to use and maintain. For me, a lot easier to use than the hose. So far I have not had any issues with being a little different. Just go over the specs with your buddy as you would normally and off you go. I also like the fact that the buttons are always in the same place. Great when I have to make a quick adjustment while using a camera.
I am not sure that everyone will have this type of BC in the future, but it is an improvement in my eyes. Not for everyone though. The next big thing will probably be self regulating BCs.
No matter what you dive with, enjoy the dive and take care of each other.
Dive Smart; Dive Safe
Enjoy the ride
:14:
I am not sure that everyone will have this type of BC in the future, but it is an improvement in my eyes. Not for everyone though. The next big thing will probably be self regulating BCs.
No matter what you dive with, enjoy the dive and take care of each other.
Dive Smart; Dive Safe
Enjoy the ride
:14:
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