"Is a BP/W too confusing for new divers?" and related topics...

[Lorenzoid]

I'm confused.
How is a BP/W any more difficult that a jacket.
Once it's on, the controls are the same.

Once you're in the water the air is going to the highest point in either style.

I've used a BP/W, and yes, they're good, but I do think there is a lot of overblown hype.
I don't use one because a lot of my diving is overseas, and I tend to rent a BCD, and BP/W is hard to come by.
A good diver is a good diver regardless of the equipment they're using.
Or am I missing something obvious?
Gear doesn't beat skill.

My understanding is that they're not just putting new divers into a BP/W but teaching them trim, which is hard to achieve in a jacket-style BC.

 

[eelnoraa]

You guys are crazy for critizing students out of OW looking like this. If they deserve -1 for this and -1 for that, the 99% of the OW or even AOW out there is like -100,000. Good job to the instructors.

 

[Skittl1321]

first dive post certification in GUE Open Water.

Is GUE Open Water a misnomer? (I know GUE has a more serious approach to diving, so perhaps it is incorrectly named...and is really just level 1?) Because that photo makes it look like an overhead, not open water...


Can you give me an idea of how many hours of training GUE Open Water is? I really don't know anything about the program. There aren't really options here...

 

[victorzamora]

Someone asked how much time was put in and since I am one of Wayne instructors I will answer while he dives . Out typical open water class has approx 9 hours of classroom and 12 hours of pool time. Checkout dives are done over a weekend with with 2 dives each day. Our ratio in the pool is on average 4 to 1. In open water we try to keep a ratio of no more than 3 to 1 by utilizing our great DMs like RJP. Most students typical gone on to take PPB so they can continue to work on improving trim, buoyancy and propulsion techniques. This includes 1 to 2 hours of classroom and 2-4 hours of pool time. Then 2 very focused open water dives with a 2 to 1 ratio. Hope this helps and answers a few questions. We find this works very well and we are very proud of the students we turn out

That was me. This next question is out of ignorance: What is the "minimum" time according to standards? What is the "normal" time for most on-the-knees and/or subsufficient training? I never kept track of time, but in my experience, 9 hours of classroom seems a little higher than normal, 12 hours of pool time is WAY higher than normal, and 2 dives a day for 2 days sounds right....but how long are the dives? Most of the ones I've seen are 20~30min each. Are my hunches correct?

---------- Post added August 7th, 2013 at 01:38 PM ----------

You guys are crazy for critizing students out of OW looking like this. If they deserve -1 for this and -1 for that, the 99% of the OW or even AOW out there is like -100,000. Good job to the instructors.

I was one of the "-1" people. Mine was meant in jest, and I hoped I had cleared it up with my comments before AND after that one. The skills exibited by those students/divers is fantastic for such an inexperienced diver. I feel robbed that I wasn't introduced to that level of diving as early on as they were. I'm proud of the instructors, the students, and the DMs/AIs involved. We need more people like that in the water....none of this standing on the bottom for EVERYTHING crap.

 

[Errol Kalayci]

Read about Global Underwater Explorers at www.gue.com if interested in the class structure and standards. It is an "open water" class, this was their first dive after the class. It was a week later and I was on the boat with a bunch of other GUE divers. They swam through a pretty open part of the wreck (as you can see from the photos), they can not do that during class but they had already graduated and decided to do so. As you can see from the photo, they really werent in an overhead environment as they could exit numerous ways within 5' or so from where they were. Here is a photo of thier ascent while doing "minimum deco" in a 1/2 knot current. Staying in control, within trim and maintaining bouyancy while doing your stops is much more challenging for new divers so this picture is a good reflection of thier skill.

 

[James R]

Interesting post.

However, BP/W would not work for many of my OW students because they would be overweighted even with an aluminum backplate. Many of them need zero weight.

Yeah, sure, maybe in the pool. In the real world where people have on a wetsuit of at least 3mm, having zero weight when their tank is down to 500 isn't a good recipe for success. Please explain your post a bit more...where are you teaching with no weight if not in the pool.

 

[eelnoraa]

I was one of the "-1" people. Mine was meant in jest, and I hoped I had cleared it up with my comments before AND after that one. The skills exibited by those students/divers is fantastic for such an inexperienced diver. I feel robbed that I wasn't introduced to that level of diving as early on as they were. I'm proud of the instructors, the students, and the DMs/AIs involved. We need more people like that in the water....none of this standing on the bottom for EVERYTHING crap.

Totally, I wish I looked like that at 50th dive. I feel I was robbed too

 

[PfcAJ]

You guys are crazy for critizing students out of OW looking like this. If they deserve -1 for this and -1 for that, the 99% of the OW or even AOW out there is like -100,000. Good job to the instructors.

^This. Those divers (and their gear) look fantastic. We ALL have room for improvement, and these guys are leaps and bounds ahead of the game already.

To the OP, you seem to be doing a damn good job. Keep it up.

 

[eelnoraa]

Interesting post.

However, BP/W would not work for many of my OW students because they would be overweighted even with an aluminum backplate. Many of them need zero weight.

I also don't understand this comments. AL plate is -2lb. empty AL80 is +4lb. Added minimal wetsuit, say 3mm. I think most people will still need a couple of lb to sink. But if it is really the AL plate causing the over weight, it is just 2lb contributed by the plate. Probably some other gear needs to be changed too.

A full blown BC with padding that gives + buoyance at surface, so diver need to carry more weight to sink the BC. Then soft material compressed by depth makes the diver even more over weighted. I think it is more dangerous this way.

 

[doctormike]

BP/W would not work for many of my OW students because they would be overweighted even with an aluminum backplate. Many of them need zero weight.

Really? They must be pretty dense people! Or do you have them all in steel tanks and bathing suits?