daniel f aleman
Contributor
The one thing, and I mean the one thing, that I will not allow in my life is someone else's self-destruction.
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Green_Manelishi:Not. The one who did the wrong can be forgiven even if they do not ask for forgiveness. Why? Because if the other one never admits their wrong there would be no forgiveness.
daniel f aleman:The one thing, and I mean the one thing, that I will not allow in my life is someone else's self-destruction.
H2Andy:ok Green... now you have me diagaming stuff
three ways "forgiveness" can happen:
1. mutual participation. culprit asks victim for forgiveness and is forgiven
2. victim moves on: culprit does not ask for forgiveness, but victim decides
to move past the harm and not let it have power over their life
3. culprit moves on: culprit asks for forgiveness, but victim won't grant it.
culprit decides to move past the harm and not let it have power over their life.
number 1 is true forgivenes.
number 3 is self-forgiveness.
number 2 IS NOT forgiveness. in order for there to be forgivness, there
has to be true repetance for the wrong done. in other words, the person
who committed the harm must realize they have done wrong and must
wish to make ammends.
note that in both 1 and 3, someone has said "man, i messed up. i was
wrong. please forgive me"
that's the key to forgiveness, in my book
Green_Manelishi:What if culprit dies? Victim can still forgive.
H2Andy:that's scenario 2
i still don't think that's forgiveness. again, i think forgiveness requires an act
of contrition, and you can't forgive someone who doesn't ask for it
you can be WILLING to forgive them, but that's not the same as forigving
for example, the person who hurt me the most in this life, who did the most
damage to me, there came a time when i was ready to forgive that person.
but the person died without ever acknowledging that they had done any wrong,
to me or those i loved.
did i forgive that person?
well, i guess you're right.... if you're willing to forgive them, in a way you have
forgiven them. but what is missing is the aknowledgement of wrong doing
on that person's part. i think that's very important for true forgiveness.
That is so true.... 'Culprit' never admits wrongdoing or apologizes or asks for forgiveness. 'Victim' sincerely and completely forgives both the 'culprit' and the wrongdoing anyway.Green_Manelishi:If you forgive them it matters not whether they admit to the wrong doing.