DIR- GUE Is it worth taking Fundamentals this late in the game?

[rddvet]

the student pool for fundies definitely seems like it can be a diverse group and being able to tailor it to each person with regards to feedback and areas of focus is important.

100%. We had a really nice guy in class that was a "technical" instructor who I believe also "mentored" people in buoyancy. He was a complete cluster. One of the worst "experienced" technical divers I've ever met. He could not fathom how to use a butt dump and couldn't come close to holding at a constant depth. It was a huge distraction from the class but it was exceptionally well handeld by the instructors. With lesser quality instructors he could have completely ruined the class for all. It was definitely an annoyance but it was taken care of properly before it became an issue. Its sad because he was a really nice dude.

 

[Troglodyti 4.0]

Depends on how your skills impact the team.

 

[Colliam7]

Honestly, you can learn something from almost every course you take. I have not heard of very many cases where a Fundies course was not of some benefit - and usually of quite substantial benefit. I am a tec instrtuctor (and, bluntly, I think I am a pretty d**n good diver as well) but I think I still have a lot that I can learn.

 

[KevinNM]

An option, if you think you have the fundamentals down, would be to ask Mark Messersmith (an instructor examiner) to determine if you have sufficient mastery of the skills to skip fundamentals. I’ve taken a class from him and he’s a good instructor who has a very hard nosed no BS attitude towards skills and standards. Not saying this is a good idea for you, but it is an option.

But Mer’s class is lot more fun.

 

[Twiny]

An option, if you think you have the fundamentals down, would be to ask Mark Messersmith (an instructor examiner) to determine if you have sufficient mastery of the skills to skip fundamentals. I’ve taken a class from him and he’s a good instructor who has a very hard nosed no BS attitude towards skills and standards. Not saying this is a good idea for you, but it is an option.

But Mer’s class is lot more fun.

Hi, are you meaning that there's a way to take GUE courses (cave, Tech, ...) without having completed the GUE fundies beforehand ?

 

[RedSix]

An option, if you think you have the fundamentals down, would be to ask Mark Messersmith (an instructor examiner) to determine if you have sufficient mastery of the skills to skip fundamentals. I’ve taken a class from him and he’s a good instructor who has a very hard nosed no BS attitude towards skills and standards. Not saying this is a good idea for you, but it is an option.

But Mer’s class is lot more fun.

This is the second time I see you posting that it is possible to skip GUE classes. Do you have any evidence for this or is it just hearsay?

Maybe @mer or @johnkendall can comment on this?

 

[Nick_Radov]

This is the second time I see you posting that it is possible to skip GUE classes. Do you have any evidence for this or is it just hearsay?

It's in the GUE SOP section 1.7. I understand that waivers were granted to a number of divers in the early days of GUE, particularly to those who has already been doing big dives with the WKPP and related groups. Now waivers are more rare, but in theory still possible.

Standards and Procedures

GUE is steadfast in their commitment to excellence and is motivated to evolve when it is evident certain techniques, procedures or configurations can improve. GUE designated this location for archiving of such changes; ensuring that motivated divers can remain conversant with the latest GUE...

www.gue.com

 

[SpeedyJ]

This is the second time I see you posting that it is possible to skip GUE classes. Do you have any evidence for this or is it just hearsay?

Maybe @mer or @johnkendall can comment on this?

As @Nick_Radov posted this is an option in the standards, but having heard Jarrod Jablonski (GUE Founder) respond directly to a question about this, it is rarely used, and somewhat discouraged. The student outcomes in the higher level training have tended to suffer relative to students who have followed the traditional path. Case in point, the individual who asked that question went on to take Fundies, but did not meet the tech pass standards.

Even if you're an absolute rock star, Fundies is introducing you to GUE's way of doing things and expectations. As an organization that is firmly rooted in "End-in-Mind" thinking, what you're introduced to in Fundies doesn't change in Tech 1 or Cave 1 - it just gets harder and more complicated.

And if you're such an amazing diver that you don't believe you could get *any* benefit from 4-5 days in the water with with a great instructor, it may be worth swapping your fins and primary light for crampons and an ice axe for your trip down from the peak of Mount Stupid.

 

[KevinNM]

It is an option supported by the standards. An IE can exempt you from any prerequisite if, it their opinion, you can demonstrate that you have mastered the expected skills and procedures. I suspect it isn’t an easy option. In the class I took with Mark we all got provisionals, he’s not an easy grader. You have to demonstrate mastery of all the skills. So, for example, managing to once successfully do a proper valve drill while not losing team awareness, formation and buoyancy isn’t what is required, it’s being able to do it on demand reliably and to standard.

 

[Nosmosis]

As a little background on myself, I've been diving for 11+ years (originally certified through PADI). About 5 years ago, I went down the non-GUE tech path through TDI and IANTD and did Intro to Tech > AN/DP > Trimix > Intro/Full Cave. When I started down this path, I really had no idea what GUE was outside of a few snide remarks from my instructor.

Regardless, I've done all my training in BM and to this day dive pretty exclusively in BM (outside of a few instances where the cave dictates SM). I'm a very curious person naturally, and so during this period, I talked to quite a few people about DIR, read a lot about DIR (mainly online resources and the Fundamentals of Better Diving by JJ), and was lucky enough to become good friends with someone I would consider a mentor who is a GUE diver and cave diving buddy. So, needless to say, over the years, I've adopted DIR principals and methodology even though I was never "formally" trained in it by a DIR-affiliated agency like GUE.

While that's all and good, the thought of taking GUE training has been growing in my mind recently, even though I feel like I would be going backwards from where I am today. I do really like the organization's training practices and standards (after seeing some less than optimal training through other agencies) and my thought process is, I know I can learn more and continue to hone my skills (which at the end of the day is the most important part to me). I also would love to get involved in GUE projects and/or other affiliated organizations like WKPP (which isn't exclusive to GUE but it obviously has significant overlap).

With all that being said, back to my original question: is it worth taking Fundamentals this late in the game? Has anyone been down a similar path? I know it's an investment of time and money, but the tradeoff could very well be worth it. Would love to hear some thoughts!

Yes. 100%.