Is remove and replace weight belt at the surface skill out dated?

[Matthew Jones]

Ton of reasons this is an important skill. First off, for safety purposes, the weight system is the the first thing you remove after establishing positive buoyancy at the surface during a rescue (either of yourself or of a victim...if you are rescuing, you establish buoyancy by inflating both yours and the victim's BCD, then dropping their weight system and your weight system). This alone makes the skill valuable.

Also I can't count how many times I've needed to give up some of my weight either at the surface or under water to someone because they didn't have enough weight. Knowing the different weight systems is crucial. Some have the terrible track systems like my wife's Soul i3, some use weight belts still, and some like me have buckles. They're all different, and people should be used to it as much as possible. If you don't have this skill, it's a safety risk.

---------- Post added February 16th, 2015 at 02:20 PM ----------

I've heard multiple instructors say, "You have to do this, but once you get a weight integrated BCD you won't have to worry about it again." To me that kind of speaks for itself.

That's not necessarily a good reason to remove the skill though. There are instances where a diver may still encounter a weight belt and it's also the easiest way to ensure a standard gear configuration across an entire class.

I think more along the lines of that speaks to the quality of the instructor, and not in a very good way.

You can't put a weight pocket back in on the surface.

LOL, WHAT?

If you can't get a weight pocket back in at the surface or underwater for that matter someone is one of three things: handicapped (and even still, to be certified, should have figured out an alternative method), over inflated, or they have too much lead shot weight that has bunched up. I remove and replace my pockets so many times I can't even count. I only dive with three pounds in each in a 4:3mm suit, but even with 5-6 in each in a 7mm, still no issue.

 

[Superlyte27]

What is this "weight" that you guys speak of? Weight belt, weight system? Huh? What are those for?

Balanced Rig ftw!

 

[oly5050user]

I can see that with the BCs we use for classes. Can't say if every student could do it easily though, as of course we only have them drop the pockets as per the new OW course. When a student does (of course) lose a pocket, we put it back in for them. Sometimes you have to fart around with that a bit yourself. My own BC is an old Genesis one--with the buckles clipping after you insert it all the way. Have not tried to re-insert them while diving, as it would SEEM to be not all that easy.

being able to remove and replace weights is a seperate required skill, as well as weight removal and release. If instructor is not requiring this skill it is a violation of standards. Listed in required skills on confined water slates and IM. Can be integrated bcd or belt.

 

[gcarter]

I think the "replace weights at the surface" would usually come into play if the diver lost them getting into the water (which happens!). With weight-integrated BCs in Puget Sound, it can be almost impossible to replace a weight pocket while in the water. They are simply too heavy and too bulky.

I know a lot of people who use weight belts. I am among them.

Can't speak of every configuration, of course, but when diving with my Balance, even in cold water gear of 7mm 2 piece with hood and 5mm gloves I had zero issues with removing and replacing a pocket. Other than practice, did it several times to make it easier to get at something that was in the pocket. I would usually carry 8 in each pocket (5+3) with the rest on a belt. Pocket limit is 10 anyway.

---------- Post added February 16th, 2015 at 08:38 PM ----------

I can see for those using a BP/W using a weight belt but BP/W is not an open water skill. I am not asking if remove and replace weight system should be removed, But IF your teaching a group of NEW OW students and they were all using weight integrated BCD should you teach Remove and replace weight belt or should you teach remove and replace weight pocket at the surface?

You could have a student in a 3 Ml wetsuit that only requires 10 lbs. of weight and to do skill you could put 4 lb. in pockets and 6 lb. on belt, but wouldn't it be a better skill to practice a configuration that they are actually dive? If they practice removing the pocket and replacing it instead?

Teach them both. As they learn how to trim themselves out it is ENTIRELY possible that they will use both pockets and belt.

Neither is particularly hard to teach or learn - but the diver should not have to figure it out on their own.

---------- Post added February 16th, 2015 at 08:39 PM ----------

Agree with Lynne. You can't put a weight pocket back in on the surface. Pretty much the only easy enough way is to do it on land without the BC on you. As for the belt, many divers use both pockets and belt. It would be a very unusual situation to have to put a weight belt back on after removing at the surface (mostly you may just remove it to hand up to someone on the boat). But I guess there could be a reason to put it back on--like if you had to remove it to fix a strap or something. So it should continue as a skill. It's basically the same as doing it at depth anyway (unless you drop it), so I don't think having this skill slows the OW student down in finishing the skills.

Completely disagree. Been there, done that.

 

[TMHeimer]

I misspoke. Yes, I'm sure anyone CAN put ANY weight pocket back in while in the water. Should have first said that with some BCDs it is probably a pain. Our classes remove belts and replace them, both in pool and ocean, as per the standards. We have students drop the pockets in shallow enough ocean water for me to easily/quickly retrieve them--this is to fulfill the (new) actual requirement of dropping weights so students experience the change in buoyancy. Maybe an instructor at some point will ask them to put them back in themselves--would be interested to see how that goes.

I agree with most here that removing and replacing any weights is certainly an important skill, and of course should remain a requirement. I suppose my inexperience shows in asking this, but I've wondered what scenario would require one to not just drop weights in an emergency (or remove them to pass up to the boat), but to also then put them back on?

 

[WildcatChris]

I think more along the lines of that speaks to the quality of the instructor, and not in a very good way.

I think it speaks more to a sign of the times. Weight integrated BCDs are the norm now. The OP's question was whether or not the "remove/replace weight belt" skill is outdated. There's a good case that could be made for that based on the fact that the majority of new BCDs have some sort of weight integration. From an instructor perspective maybe more focus should be placed on familiarizing students with those systems, instead of a weight belt that they may never encounter again.

It might be even better to focus on both...

 

[gcarter]

I misspoke. Yes, I'm sure anyone CAN put ANY weight pocket back in while in the water. Should have first said that with some BCDs it is probably a pain. Our classes remove belts and replace them, both in pool and ocean, as per the standards. We have students drop the pockets in shallow enough ocean water for me to easily/quickly retrieve them--this is to fulfill the (new) actual requirement of dropping weights so students experience the change in buoyancy. Maybe an instructor at some point will ask them to put them back in themselves--would be interested to see how that goes.

I agree with most here that removing and replacing any weights is certainly an important skill, and of course should remain a requirement. I suppose my inexperience shows in asking this, but I've wondered what scenario would require one to not just drop weights in an emergency (or remove them to pass up to the boat), but to also then put them back on?

Not an emergency, but as stated in my example above, the pocket access in the SeaQuest Balance can be a bit of a pain - something I suspect is probably common with weight integration, possibly even worse if not a back inflate like mine. Popping out the weight makes access easier, and the weight can then be replaced.

 

[Matthew Jones]

I think it speaks more to a sign of the times. Weight integrated BCDs are the norm now. The OP's question was whether or not the "remove/replace weight belt" skill is outdated. There's a good case that could be made for that based on the fact that the majority of new BCDs have some sort of weight integration. From an instructor perspective maybe more focus should be placed on familiarizing students with those systems, instead of a weight belt that they may never encounter again.

It might be even better to focus on both...

But the OP is wrong, that isn't the skill. The skill is remove and replace weight system.

I agree with most here that removing and replacing any weights is certainly an important skill, and of course should remain a requirement. I suppose my inexperience shows in asking this, but I've wondered what scenario would require one to not just drop weights in an emergency (or remove them to pass up to the boat), but to also then put them back on?

I'll give you a simple example, but there are a million others.

Here we dive a site called Shark's Cove. It has an entrance off some lava rock into a lava tube "elevator shaft". It sounds like an elaborate cave system but it's really just a simple way to swim about 30-50ft into the ocean from a rougher entry without getting diced by waves. Unfortunately, once you get in, you're in. There are many similar type entries here on island. Lanai Lookout comes to mind as well.

So I was diving with another diver, even before I was a DM or Instructor, and I always carry as part of my standard amount of weight an extra two pound clip weight in my weight pocket. It's rarely needed, but a lifesaver when it is.

Said diver could not stay descended confidently enough to make it through the lava tube, so I inflated on the surface inside the little pool, removed my pouch, clipped the two pound weight onto his BCD, shifted one pound from my right pouch to even out the weight, and we finished our dive successfully.

In another instance I was diving with someone who simply couldn't get below the surface and we had already made a long surface swim. Same situation. Removed the clip weight and evened out the rest of my weights, and we were good to go.

Same with the equipment removal and replacement skill. I've removed my gear and taken weight out of my trim pouches that I couldn't reach to give to divers.

I've used the skill underwater a bunch as well, especially in training. I've received and given weight from other people in order to remain on the bottom during a surge with open water students. My wife gave me two pounds in some pretty bad surge while I was trying to keep some students grounded.

And of course there's plenty of the emergency situations.

 

[TSandM]

I can see for those using a BP/W using a weight belt but BP/W is not an open water skill.

Huh? We start all our private students in backplates. It's just a back inflate BC that's easier to adjust to multiple body sizes.

I guess I'm obviously inept, because I can't stuff a ten pound weight pocket back into an inflated BC (diver at the surface) with dry gloves on. Shoot, I could hardly get a 10 lb weight pocket into a BC on the table in the dive shop, when I was learning. I suppose I could DEFLATE the BC, since the diver is 20 pounds light now, but that kind of defeats the purpose of teaching students that at any they are at the surface, they are to have their BCs inflated. I don't believe our curriculum requires that you replace the weight system in open water, just in the pool, and we do it there.

 

[Diver0001]

With weight-integrated BCs in Puget Sound, it can be almost impossible to replace a weight pocket while in the water. They are simply too heavy and too bulky.

I think it depends on the design of the BCD. I was out crab hunting once with a couple of friends and was using a rental BCD. I don't recall what it was. At some point during the dive I made an unclear sign to one of my buddies and he thought that I wanted him to unclip my weights. He said after the fact that it wasn't clear to him why I wanted that but it was clear to him at the time that this is what I wanted.

What I was actually trying to sign to him was to unzip the pocket because I couldn't find the end of the zipper..... I guess the motion I made looked like "pull" instead of "zip".

So he pulled the weight pocket out and handed it to me. I clicked it back in without any trouble. It just went in as easy as it came out.

The 2nd time I made a much clearer "uuuuunnnnzzziiiiiiipppp" sign and he unzipped the pocket.... LOL

I know a lot of people who use weight belts. I am among them.

Nothing wrong with integrated weights imo. I use a weightbelt too but if I have a lot of weight (like when diving in the tropics using an AL80 in a drysuit, then I will put about 2/3 of the weight in the vest just to keep it off my back. When you're making 20-odd dives in a week then less stress on your back is good.

R..