Is Side Mount the new DIR??? Building resentment towards us as a group...

[bamafan]

Is it my imagination, or has the topic of this thread suddenly switched?

It seems as if we have a group of new participants entering with a new agenda, specifically attacking a specific type of SM gear and those who promote it. That is not what this thread has been about before this AT ALL. What do you say we keep this on topic?

It seems to me the thread evolved to is criticism constructive. If you are referring to me in your comment that is all I was saying that I think criticism is good and using my personal experience as an example. If you look back to when GI3 was doing his infamous rants I think you will see sidemount is in a similar position as bm was then. I think sm needs some standardizationand I was hoping GUE would come out with some standards. Maybe I took some of the comments wrong but I think criticism is good and some people won't change unless they are called out in public. I have seen this personally.

 

[Razorista]

Most people like sidemount preciecly because of the lack in standards.

 

[nakatomi]

Most people like sidemount preciecly because of the lack in standards.

But only until they find out that they're actually not doing it all that right

 

[nakatomi]

specifically attacking a specific type of SM gear and those who promote it.

John, I'm surprised constructive criticism is rubbing you the wrong way. May I ask what rig you are diving and who you took your SM class from?
And if you feel any of this matches the descriptions given, wouldn't it make sense to have someone else moderate the posts?

 

[Razorista]

But only until they find out that they're actually not doing it all that right

Sidemount has no right way, only the ones left after the right way was was discarded

Sidemount is (also) for people who do not want to learn stupid routines, but want to go diving.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am not moderating this thread. I am just participating and making an observation. I will not moderate this thread because I have participated in it to a certain degree, I know the individuals involved in this topic switch, and I know what is really going on. That means any moderation on my part would be a conflict of interest, and moderators are not allowed to moderate threads when there is even a perceived conflict of interest.

The topic of this thread, as is clearly defined by the title and the first post, is the perception that there is a conflict between sidemount divers in general and back mount divers in general, a conflict reminiscent of the one that developed between DIR and non-DIR divers in past years. What has been happening in the last posts is an entirely different topic. The conflict between two groups of Florida sidemount divers is not what this is about.

 

[nakatomi]

The topic of this thread, as is clearly defined by the title and the first post, is the perception that there is a conflict between sidemount divers in general and back mount divers in general, a conflict reminiscent of the one that developed between DIR and non-DIR divers in past years. What has been happening in the last posts is an entirely different topic.

It is evident that there are conflicts within the side mount community on how to do things, regarding what is acceptable in terms of skills and gear configuration.
And I'm not talking specifically about the issues mentioned by the individuals you have pointed out.
Just look at scubaboard and the side mount discussions going on. Single bungee vs. loop or ring bungees, helmet or no helmet, aluminum vs. steel, side inflate vs. horseshoe vs. donut wing and so on.
And some of the people are becoming very religious about their favorite gear or about their instructors way of doing SM. And no, I'm not even talking about anyone in Florida, the most religious bunch seems to be located elsewhere

As Bamafan has pointed out, it's DIR history repeating itself all over again. It will eventually lead to some form of standardization, hopefully.

And as I've said before and like Tony Chaney has mentioned, I feel that the DIR SM movements have no gripes with backmount divers, the conflicts are being fought within the SM community.
To me that's a good followup or extension to the original topic and I prefer it evolving over beating the dead horse over and over again.

 

[Razorista]

...It will eventually lead to some form of standardization, hopefully...

Hopefully not!
We will not let non diving standard writers take away our freedom (again).

This time the divers will not be stopped by some organizations wanting to make money with certs and expensive and sub-standard of the shelf equipment.

 

[The Chairman]

As Bamafan has pointed out, it's DIR history repeating itself all over again.

Which was the original premise.

Now, you see DIR as creating some sort of standardization. Yes, but to a degree that was decidedly unhealthy to the sport. I hope we never experience that in Side mount. Caving and cave instructors have set the bar a bit more neutral for everyone. Are there bad instructors out there? Sure. Calling them out does nothing. Nothing at all.

I see the internal bicker battles spilling over to the Back Mount community. Again, we can deny it all we want, or we can face it and fix it.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Most people like sidemount preciecly because of the lack in standards.

Sidemount doesn't really lend itself well to standards. Proper trim in a Nomad or Contour isn't going to be the same as proper trim in a Stealth or Razor. Different approaches work better for some people and applications than they do for others. My last SM class had my two students showing up with the ScubaPro rig, and I had never seen one before. So I had to spend a couple hours figuring out how it went together, and then 3 dives figuring out how to get them trimmed out properly while using it. The rigs are all so different that the only "standards" you can apply are what you want to see as the desired result ... tanks that sit in close to and aligned with the body, and divers who can get into and maintain pretty much whatever position they want without excessive effort. Things like band position, leash length, weight distribution and a half-dozen other variables are going to depend on the diver and the rig they're using. About the only way I can envision GUE-like "standards" being applied to SM is to settle on one specific style of rig ... and I don't see that happening.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)