Is there a valid reason for a pony bottle

[MaxBottomtime]

so take away the crutch that saves a trip to a chamber? And or ignore the zipper divers that run out of air....so let them die. Bro im relatively new and you are highly experienced but your idea of scuba diving is every diver for himself let the stupid die. I mean im not judging you im telling you what you say. I dont care really but if you end up swimming past my group and there is a mistake maybe you keep swimming and watching someone breath saltwater.

Its a bit extreme. Save a life when you can then scream at them after. Solo divers have some seriously messed up agendas. maybe thats why you solo dive. no one wants to dive with you.

If you go back and read my post you'll see where I said the zippers should be in shallow water by the time they are low on air. If they run out at 70 feet then they need more than a pony, they need remedial training. It really isn't that difficult to check your spg.
I never said let them die, but many times a rescuer has become a victim. 700 psi would still be enough to get two divers up, but solving issues before a diver gets in the water is safer than throwing more gear at a problem.

 

[Coztick]

Since I only use 1 secondary on the main tank, the pony is my bailout upon donation as well as failure.
If either happens, the dive is over.
So at the end of a rec. dive, in less than 70ft of water, I'm comfortable running my main tank to 500psi before ascending.
Plenty to share as the pony has my reserve. Not sure why I would need a third secondary. It just becomes multiple points to fail with no real advantage.
I don't breathe my pony to extend a dive but I do consider it the last 400 psi of my reserve.
All within rec. limits, warm water and good visability. Beyond any of those parameters, it's doubles for me.
I'm new, but in 100 holiday, boat dives I've only had maybe 5 Instabuddies who took the team thing seriously.
That alone started me on the path to self awareness and reliance.

Live and learn, Kevin

 

[doctormike]

Conversely I have employees at my local dive shop that say never carry a pony. Plan your dive and dive your plan and you will never need a pony. Like emphatically believing this.

Here's a good reason for carrying a pony, even if you plan your dive and dive your plan.

Also, it's also a nice way to help someone else who didn't get that memo. You have the option of handing your pony off to an OOG diver, AFTER you have stabilized the situation by giving him your primary and switching to your backup (pony or octo). A few threads about that on SB...

 

[HalcyonDaze]

Here's a good reason for carrying a pony, even if you plan your dive and dive your plan.

This is why I carry a pony. It's not part of my gas plan; it's an acknowledgment that on a single tank and reg my life-support system could be compromised by one hose or o-ring failing. Now, if I were 100% confident that my buddy was going to be right next to me and would be capable of doing a shared air ascent, I wouldn't be too concerned. Given the amount of "same ocean buddy" diving I do these days, I decided to invest in a little insurance that would let me safely get to the surface if I completely lose my primary gas source..

 

[PfcAJ]

I don’t see a need for one.

Gas management, solid buddy/team skills, quality gear. CESA is still a totally viable option if all the above fails.

 

[doctormike]

I think that people tend to overthink this stuff, and come up with all sorts of explanations about how in THIS emergency they will do exactly THAT because of their training and practice. Yes, of course, training and practice are important. But as Mike Tyson said, "everybody has a plan until they get punched in the face".

It is SO easy to get into trouble, and the pony or other redundant gas supply really can serve as a lifesaving device, even for people who plan and monitor their gas usage meticulously.

That data from the Advanced Diver article is for a full tank, BTW. If you are happily at depth with 1000 PSI, "knowing" that you can make a safe ascent, you are less than 30 seconds from empty if you have an LP hose burst or other failure. And EVERYTHING gets worse in an emergency - your skills, your SAC rate, your executive functioning, etc... Even if you can make a CESA from depth, that's a significant DCS risk if you are late in the dive.

Yeah, your buddy should always be right next to you. Three is two, two is one, one is none.

 

[grf88]

One reason not yet mentioned is that when diving in very cold water free flows are quite common and having a second diver breathing off the same first stage can tip the scales especially if they are in a state of panic. Other options of course are doubles or an h-valve but a pony is a good choice for many divers.

 

[doctormike]

One reason not yet mentioned is that when diving in very cold water free flows are quite common and having a second diver breathing off the same first stage can tip the scales especially if they are in a state of panic. Other options of course are doubles or an h-valve but a pony is a good choice for many divers.

Yup, exactly....that was one of the things that was tested in that article. Not quite as fast as a burst hose, but still a pretty quick way to empty a tank.

 

[Caveeagle]

I have a buddy who has run out of air twice, despite the fact that he always carries a pony. He uses it to extend dives, then runs out during his stops. I told him I no longer allow pony bottles on my boat because of his actions. It's too much of a liability having divers thinking they have a crutch in case they don't look at their spg.

So, I have been on boats where we were told ro be back on the boat with 500psi. And they did check at least on the first dive. Set expectations correctly and follow up.

I sometimes carry a deco bottle, which sometimes has 99, 80 or 50%, On some dives, I carry the leaner mix, as it gives a dual “bail out” option depending on MOD.

Other times I carry just for solo, or new buddy reasons. Diving “solo” seldom means being alone, for me. It just means that I am 100% independent. One example was a recent dive where I was in the water with 4 other divers. I really try to avoid 3-buddy teams, so I take the role of the odd man out and dive as solo.

I do tend tend to have a “sheep dog” mentality when in the water with less experienced divers. This allows me freedom to scan back between both buddy teams to monitor things.

I do think that sometimes “More” is not better. ...it’s just MORE. But there is a place for pony/buddy bottles. It’s a tool that I use when it makes sense.

 

[barth]

Here's a good reason for carrying a pony, even if you plan your dive and dive your plan.

Also, it's also a nice way to help someone else who didn't get that memo. You have the option of handing your pony off to an OOG diver, AFTER you have stabilized the situation by giving him your primary and switching to your backup (pony or octo). A few threads about that on SB...

Or it is a good reason for not using a burst disk. ;-)

I Keep 1200 liter minimum gas for a depth between 18 - 30 m (60-100 feet).
I keep a minimum gas of 600 liter for a depth of 10 -18 m (30-60 feet).

My buddy would do the same if we plan the dive. That means even by a failed low pressure hose I do have (at least) 22 seconds. That would be enough time for me to go to my buddy for his regulator.

Even with a instabuddy this wouldn't be a problem to be at him before my tank would be empty when I do have a low presure hose failure. If it would be a problem, There was already a problem before the failure... There are 3 options, stay closer to my buddy, communicate my buddy to stay closer to me. Or I can cancel the dive. I wouldn't accept it that my buddy is more than 22 seconds away of me.

There is always a scenario possible were a ponybottle would help you/saves your live. But there is also a scenario possible were even a ponybottle is not enough. If you carry a single tank and a pony, I could carry doubles and and 2 bottom stages. Would that be safer?

The link in your post is not a good reason for me to carry a pony.

( A good reason for me would be solodiving. )