Issues with Fantasea Bigeye Lens for G10

[Nemrod]

I think the flare in the corners results from both the rear element/partition and the dome not being optically coated and stray light at a grazing angle reflecting within the enclosure.

When using a wide angle or dome try to keep the sun behind you and beware of bright objects.

Keep your flash units well behind the dome.

If it were me I would gain acess to the interior, if there is not already a plugged hole, I would drill a 1/16 diamter hole and use an inflation needle (sports equipment) and purge the interior with dry nitrogen (or dry compressed air) for several minutes and then reseal the hole with epoxy to eliminate the fogging. It cannot fog if there is ZERO moisture regardless.

The blurry edges I think are poor correction or the result of zooming the camera or the lens not being kept securely fixed as closely as possible to the housing port.

Dome fitted wide angle/fisheye type lenses are prone to flare even when well designed and optically coated. I think your Big Eye lenses can be used effectively if due caution is exercised to avoid conditions that aggravate this weakness.

N

 

[plooper]

Thank you for all the help and responses. It still seems to be a 50/50 on weather its lens flare or fogging... I found a photo I took just before submerging and I 'think' it clearly shows the lens have fogged upon touching the cold water i was floating in..

If that is the case, I would prefer if someone blasted dry nitrogen in there to stop it FOREVER. Its seems to much of a hassle to keep the lens cool in transit just before diving to reduce the chances of fogging. This bigeye lens wasnt that cheap..

I travelled all the way to bali to find out 80% of my shots had this white smoked blur inside it... sort of broke my heart when i came back to post process it on my computer.. theres only so much adobe photoshop can do

If I do it myself, i guess that voids the warranty. Can fantasea do it upon special request? Or perhaps to all subsequent bigeye lens that get made.. -.-

 

[lerroy]

I also have a Big Eye Lense for G10

I have only done 1 Dive and a couple of Snorkel's/Dives and have also come across the same problem with lenese flare, i have tried different angles away and to the light, i didnt notice it that much when in water but saw a common trend on my photos on my laptop, bottoms corners like all the photos posted in this thread.

I havent played around with the Lense shroud changeing angles which i will do on my next dive,

I need to get out in water some more have a play around wit it see if i can counter the flare.

i was not using my Strobe for the dives i used it on

I have not Experienced the Fogging problem at all, and to be very honest i didnt not cover my lense, it stayed in the Sun for a while and i then dived into water big difference in temps but no problems.

 

[bkkchris]

I had the same issues. Ended up getting rid of the Canon housing, and the BigEye with it. The first few dives I did not notice a problem but it was rather overcast. On a bright day, depending on the angle, it went from barely noticeable, to pretty obvious, and its too bad, because its really a pretty nice lenses otherwise. Had to keep reminding myself that it was not the quality of a $1000+ glass dome port like some purchase for DSLR rigs... But frustrating all the same!

 

[sooke]

I'm always letting the young puppies get the new gear and sit back and observe what problems occur. Then make a decision.... I know I know what a weasel.
"There are old divers and bold divers, but no old bold divers."

 

[lerroy]

I'm always letting the young puppies get the new gear and sit back and observe what problems occur. Then make a decision.... I know I know what a weasel.
"There are old divers and bold divers, but no old bold divers."

gh

Dammit i thought i waited long enough

 

[Pedro Veiga]

I want to be an bold diver, so: in your opinions would I buy the BigEye lens?

 

[JackConnick]

SB'ers;

I want to say that although I am a dealer for Fanatsea, I'm first of all a diver and photographer. I care a lot that my customers have a good experience with the products I sell. Fantasea doesn't always follow the threads here and when I saw the posts as regarding fogging and other defects, I brought it to their attention.

They are concerned with the quality of their products and do stand behind them, to the extent of pulling bad ones off the market, or testing and retesting until they are sure there are no problems. Case in fact is that the Remora strobe was held off the market for nearly 7 months due to some very minor issues. That gets expensive. But it is a better strobe now.

I contacted Howard Rosenstein, the president of Fantasea about their manufacturing process. According to his engineers the lenses ARE manufactured in a completely humidity controlled environment, aka clean room conditions. He will have more information posted soon. They are taking steps to improve the mounting skirt on the G10 model and looking at the shock cord attachments to see how they could improve them. I think some small Fastec quick release buckles would help.

After ascertaining that they were unable to do true cold water dive tests in Eliat (!), Howard readily agreed to my taking a lens out of stock (nothing special about the unit), and doing some dives with it. I used a Fuji mount, but this is exactly the same lens and came from the same lot as Puffer's and other early adopters according to him. I told him I would give him my results first, but that they would be published on ScubaBoard and my blog unedited.

I tried to the best of our local conditions here in Seattle to recreate the issues surrounding this lens. I am not a trained engineer/product tester, my approach was to basically punish the lens and use it under local conditions like any other diver would.

Temperature & Fogging
Not having 80F days here, I gave it some temperature bath tests and couldn’t recreate any fogging.

I repeatedly plunged the lens into my hot tub at 104F for 10 mins and then a cold ice bath of 50 degrees. I didn’t see any immediate problem or when I left it in the cold bath. Tried 3x times. No fogging on the inside of the lens at all. Yes, definite fogging on the outside, which immediately is removed upon immersion. No other problems.

Dive Testing
I did a total of 3 dives with the lens and Fuji F200. Again not empirical, but enough to see if there are defects in the design.

First dive was at the Seattle Aquarium where I'm a volunteer science diver. They have an open-system 400,000 gal tank we get to feed the fish in. It has filtered water, but otherwise is directly linked to Puget Sound.

I set up the Fuji F200, FXF-200 housing with the Big Eye lens and one Remora strobe.

Air temps were mid-60s+ warmer in the sun, and water about 52F. I warmed the lens again over a hot air duct as much as I could and then left it in the sun on a cement pool surround for 30 mins. I brought it into the tank, cleared it and observed it on the surface, then again at the bottom at 25'. Took shots for 20 mins and again observed the lens. No fogging, or other problems in rather bright conditions were found.

I would say that the Remora's beam coverage horizontally was quite good, but vertically I observed a rather sharp fall-off with this lens, even after swiveling it upwards considerably.

Second and Third Dives, were off my friend's boat out on Puget Sound. Air temps were about the same and water was bout 52F on the surface and 48F at depths not exceeding 65'.

I took about 120 shots with the Fuji and two Inon z240 strobes, which I used for their much broader power and coverage to see if I could induce the light flare artifacts noted by users.

I again observed the lens at the surface, and throughout the dive for fogging and found none.

I was finally able to recreate the issue of lens flare and by adjusting the strobes and swiveling the camera very slightly format he sun, I was able to eliminate it. Lens flare with any dome is always a problem and for best results you should use longer arms and move your lights behind the camera and swivel them outwards to use edge lighting. This also reduces backscatter.

Here's a series:

Pronounced flare

A "fog" looking flare

Almost no flare

No flare

Conclusions
By in large, I found the lens to be a ball to shoot with. As you set the camera in macro mode for focus, you can get extremely close and have amazing depth of field with the lens.

It also is ideal for close-focus, wide angle shots. There is a lack of corner sharpness, but this is to be expected with a point and shoot set up. I have shot the Inon dome and yes, I would say it is sharper, but it is also about 1.5x the cost. By my eye I think many users would enjoy the sharpness and coverage offered by the lens. It adds a big tool to the average P&S'ers toolbox.

If you definitely are seeing moisture inside the lens, you have a service issue and Fantasea will repair or replace the lens under their one-year warranty.
See: Fantasea Customer Service

More photos can be found here:
Fuji F200 P&S - a set on Flickr
(they are the last 12 shots in this set - Note, all photos are directly from the camera with no retouching, etc.)

I hope this clears up some issues with this product, they are very popular and remain in short supply.

Jack

 

[SharonRainis]

Hi All,

As the chief test diver for Fantasea Line, I would like to respond again to some of the issues brought up throughout this thread.

First, although we invest much time, money and energies to thoroughly test our equipment prior to releasing it to the market (sometimes even a few months, as Jack justifiably pointed out regarding the Remora Flash), we always seek to learn from our customers’ experience once the product is released and we appreciate any feedback, whether it’s positive or not.

Bigeye G Series Adaptor Design
As soon as we received feedback regarding possible problems in the BigEye Lens G Series mount design, our R&D department and engineers immediately responded by working on an upgrade that will enable improving this solution, thereby ensuring that it’s as convenient as possible. We are happy to inform you that we have already finalized the enhanced design of the BigEye Lens G Series adaptor, which now enables a more stable mounting of the BigEye Lens on Canon G Series Housings. This was done by extending the guide edges featured on the adaptor of the BigEye Lens, which allows it to better grip the lens port when installed on the housing. In addition, we are also considering enhancing the design by using 4 bungy lines, instead of 2, for better positioning and securing of the lens.
The modified adaptor will be included with our the next units, which will be available by the end of this month. Upgrade kits are being considered as well for first generation BigEye customers.

Lens Fogging
As for the BigEye Lens fogging up, although we have never encountered such a problem before during our own intensive test dives with the different BigEye Lenses types, and although the images posted on this thread seemed to feature a lens glare rather than a fogged area inside the lens, it was important for us to take this issue seriously and thoroughly investigate it as well. Therefore, we first sent sample BigEye Lenses to several of our key dealers, who are also experienced and avid underwater photographers, including Jack Connick (Optical Ocean, Seattle WA), who kindly tested the lens in the cooler water of Puget Sound and could not reproduce this problem (for further information regarding this testing, please see Jack’s remarks and conclusions posted here yesterday ). In addition, we have approached our engineers on the subject of product assembly conditions and we can now confirm that our lenses are manufactured and assembled within a specially controlled production room, in which dust particles, humidity and temperature are carefully controlled.

Regarding the fog test conducted by PufferFish-

“Looking at the lens today... I could not see any of the very tiny droplets... so I did the next best thing... I just put the lens in cold water... waited about 5 minutes .... cleaned and dried the lens to make sure there was no outside fogging.. and then looked thru the lens...”

Please note that we have consulted with our professional team and engineers and found that this method of testing the fog issue was improper. First, in cold water diving conditions, the BigEye Lens should be kept in a cool area for 10-15 minutes prior to submerging it in water, otherwise the significant temperature differences extend the period of time that should pass in order for the fog to dissolve. This is the reason why keeping the BigEye Lens in an insulated, cool and protected place prior to the dive is so important. Second, the lens should not be taken out of the water in order to for the fog to dissolve. On the contrary, it should be kept underwater in order for the temperature differences to decrease, thereby allowing for the fog to slowly dissolve. It is also technically impossible to dry the lens in a way that prevent it from fogging up on the external surface, just as it is impossible to take a bottle out of the refrigerator and to dry it up in a way that will completely prevent any repeated condensation on the exterior of the bottle.

Following what has been pointed out above, please take into consideration that it makes a HUGE difference, especially in cold water diving conditions, if the BigEye is stored in a dry and cool place prior the dive. The rule is quite simple in this case- the longer you leave your BigEye Lens or housing under the sun prior to the dive, the longer it takes for the fog to dissolve during the dive. However, if the lens does fog up during the dive due to significant temperature differences, the best solution is simply to keep diving with it and the fog should disappear after no more than 10 minutes.

Lens Flare
As mentioned above, the bright area on some of the earliest images posted on this thread clearly seems like a lens glare rather than a fogged area inside the lens. Unlike DSLR underwater photographers, compact digital housing owners have less experience with dome lenses or ports, which require specific techniques when powerful sunlight is available or when making use of artificial lighting.

So how do you prevent a lens glare when making use of a dome lens/port?
Simply make sure to keep any powerful light sources away from the dome. If you are making use of an artificial light source (as an underwater strobe or flash), make sure to position it in a way that it is not pointed towards the dome. You can do so by making use of longer arms, which allow you to position the strobe further away from the dome and pointing the strobe away from the camera housing, thereby ensuring that the light doesn’t have to pass through the dome when illuminating your subject. After positioning your strobe, make sure to position the lens sun shade protectors in a way that they are blocking the strobe output. This can be done by simply rotating the lens protectors, as no tools are required. In addition, try to avoid images which are shot straight against the sun, which serves as a powerful light source as well. Succeeding to do so will prevent any strong light from entering the dome and bouncing back towards the camera lens, which practically causes the lens glare.

Summary
To summarize, in our initial testing of the BigEye Lens, which was conducted for a few months in the clear, warm and sunny Red Sea, as well as in Jack Connick’s testing, carried out in the cooler and darker water of Puget Sound, both lens fogging and lens glare were easily avoided by making use of the proper and simple techniques mentioned above. Although some training is required in order to automate these techniques, this is an essential step when moving forward to professional underwater photography, in which dome lenses and ports are often made use of. Succeeding to properly adapt these techniques will ensure that your experience with such products is enjoyable and that the results are ideal.

I would like to mention again that we are very proud of the BigEye Lens, which was released a few months ago. For the most part, the market response in forums around the world has been most enthusiastic and appreciative of the product. Our customers satisfaction is most important to us and we would like to ensure your experience is excellent as well. Therefore, if any further assistance or advise is required, you are all always very welcome to contact us at info@fantasea.com, and I assure you that you will receive all the personal attention required to ensure you are satisfied with our products.

The new, upgraded Fantasea Line BigEye Lens G Series will be released this month. We are also planning to offer an easy-fix solution for the first generation port mounts, available in a form of a kit. Our next project would be a BigEye Lens for the Canon S90!

And to those who made it till the end of my post… thank you for your interest and the diligence required for reading through what turned out to be one of my longest statements ever!

Best Wishes,

Sharon Rainis
Fantasea Line

 

[SharonRainis]

Product Warranty

In addition to the above post, Fantasea Line would like to add that there is always a possibility for defective products reaching the market. Although we employ very stringent Quality Control measures, mistakes do happen and damage can be caused to products in shipment. Such may be the case if water enters inside the lens.

In this case, all of our products have a 1 year warranty for product defects leading to product failure and we will replace or repair any defective products sold un-intentionally.

In this case, please contact your authorized Fantasea Dealer or file a Customer Service Claim through the Fantasea Line website --> Customer Support Center.

Thanks,

Sharon Rainis
Fantasea Line