Just finished AOW. Took me a while. It was garbage.

[MB]

I'd imagine in the end it cost around $500 to complete the course.

And if you learned, and changed your diving behavior, and opened doors to dives that you wouldn't have done, and gained confidence in your ability to problem solve, and altered your approach to more complex dives.... then the course would be a bargain at twice the price. Unfortunately, most "advanced" classes are neither advanced, nor classes. It is so very important to find out in advance what the content of a class will be before giving any money to the person who claims to "teach" it.

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I'd imagine in the end it cost around $500 to complete the course.

And for just 100 more you could have taken a class that would have taught you true control in the water and allowed you to gain actual comfort while diving. Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

 

[Dr Wu]

What exactly were you expecting to get from the course?

 

[Pane]

From the sound of this I would blame your shop for ripping you off, not PADI.

Pretty much this. People like slamming PADI, and I guess they deserve a little stick for commercialism but they're not the one to blame here. I payed around $200 for my AOW which included all costs except the certification fee (around $30). No additional instructor fees, equipment rental and boat fees included. I have never heard about having to buy the DVD (having to buy the book seems standard) and even a full crew pack (book, dvd, bunch of other stuff) goes for some $75 on Amazon, new.

My wife did her AOW this October in Egypt with a fantastic instructor in a gorgeous diving area and it was great value for money. She got her cert, and because equipment rental and boat fees are included in the course, she ended up spending only the price of the book ($40 or so) and card on top of what I was paying for 'just dives'.

An AOW cert is imho very much worth it in terms of what it opens up for you. You need one for Rescue like people mentioned (with PADI at least), you need it for most liveaboards, and without it most guides won't take you beyond 18m (rightfully so I should add).

 

[phreaticus]

My .02 cents, as an old (inactive) instructor...

When I taught advanced classes, back in the 80's, in the Tampa Bay area, I tailored the dives to what the divers would be doing once outside the "instructor cradle" environment.
First night was gear modification (get rid of danglies, streamline everything possible (correct hose lengths, etc. ) and check out all accesories (lights, compass, reels, etc.)
We discussed all environments to be experienced in the class...cavern (not cave!), beach entry (low viz, compass use/navigation), boat/drift diving, night diving, and deep diving/simulated decompression. SCA rate calculation, gas management. Rescue was discussed and done, in a rudimentary way, as this was another class level.
Dives conducted were: Manatee Springs State Park (I was an active cave diving instructor)...headspring (heavy flow acclimation, propulsion techniques), Catfish Hotel sink (buoyancy control, trim, propulsion techniques (anti silting), reel and gudeline use, light signalling, hand signals, lights out (mask blackout) drills, and emergency swimming and sharing air ascent skills from 50 ft. deep to the surface. Essentially a mini-cavern course. Three dives, approx. 2 hrs. TBT.
Second day: Bradenton Beach, Sugar Barge wreck...beach/surf (if there was any!) entry/exit, low visibility navigation compass use (reciprocal and triangulation courses), buddy team contact, buddy surface assist/rescue techniques, surface marker deployment. Two dives, approx. 2 hours. TBT.
Third/Fourth days: W. Palm Beach...boat diving skills. drift diving techniques, night/drift diving, simple wreck diving skills (orientation, contact point (anchor/upline) recognition, simple short penetration techniques (minimal overhead), simulated drift decompression. Five dives, approx. three hours TBT.
Fifth day: Deep/simulated decompression dive (I had access to a controlled access sinkhole with max depth (vertical ascent, no overhead ) to 220 ft.)...reel and guideline use, light hand signal communication, low visibilty communication (seasonal), precision buoyancy control, gas management, simulated decompression. Two dives,approx. bottom time 1 hour.
I felt that by the time a student had succesfully completed the course (I did require some to redo some skills, primarily compass and buoyancy control, in subsequent classes, about 20% or so) they were at least exposed to a wide variety of diving environments, and had the skills/knowledge to make good decisions about thier abilities to safely conduct dives in a variety of situations. A large percentage then took the rescue course, and a good percentage took a cavern and even cave diving course later on. I must admit that Florida offers probably the widest variety of diving environment variation of almost any place on the planet, from fanny-dunk, prime visibility warm water shallow reef dives to extremely advanced cave, deep, and heavy current wreck dives, so teaching a varied course was pretty easy to arrange.
It's not about how many dives, IMHO, but the variety of dives done....you can have 500 dives in the quarry (or the Keys), but you WILL NOT be qualified to dive in any overhead environment, of any consequence, or on a deep wreck in a 3 knot current...until you are further trained!

 

[Lorenzoid]

If you look at AOW as nothing more than an opportunity to do a few dives with an instructor that are somewhat more interesting than the checkout dives you did in OW, then it doesn't seem like such a ripoff.

I believe AOW should be combined with OW, and one is not "certified" until one has done those extra dives with an instructor along. I have to believe I am speaking for others when I say that immediately following my OW certification, I had no confidence whatsoever in my ability to dive without a divemaster or experienced dive buddy along. It wasn't until after my next few dives, as part of AOW with an instructor helping me along, that I actually felt I was now a fledgling diver. Passing the OW certification is like passing a driver's license test having had no actual time on the road. Most driving students spend at least some time driving around with an instructor, in addition to practicing the specific skills that will be needed at the exam itself, before taking the exam. The AOW course filled the gap for me. It doesn't bother me too much that PADI makes it a separate course so that they can charge more money, but I just considered it an extension of OW.

 

[warmwaterturner]

Mine was SSI. The charge was $235.00 for everything. I really got a lot out of it, especially the section on Deep Diving and Night. I do think that the conputer section was to elementary but considering the total possible number of computers out there I can see why it was what it was. You might look to another shop before taking additional certs.

 

[Downing]

I think I paid around $200 for my PADI AOW course but can't remember if that included the price of the book, probably not. If I remember right, there was a class or two and at least one pool session followed by five dives that were supposed to be done over one weekend.

I had the same instructor from my OW class a couple of years before. She's outstanding in every way. The classroom and pool exercises were here in Portland, but the open water dives were in Washington state in Puget Sound.

I drove up Friday night so I could get a good night's sleep. Unfortunately, the hotel's fire alarm went off about 2:30 in the morning, and we weren't allowed back in for about an hour. So much for a good night's sleep.

The first three dives on Saturday went off without a hitch, but the next morning I discovered that someone had stolen the bottom half of my rented 7mm wetsuit when I had accidentally left it behind in the public restroom the night before. No more diving for me that day.

On the drive back to Portland I had to change a flat tire on the side of I-5 in the pouring rain. I arrived home soaking wet, filthy from the tire change and no AOW card. Not one of my better days.

I had to pay for the rented wetsuit, of course, and because that was the last class of the season, I had to wait until the following spring to drive back to Washington to finish up the dives.

In the end, I thought it was worth it. I didn't feel so much like an "advanced" diver as much as an "improved" diver, but I was happy to finally earn the damn card and felt like I got a decent value for the money, the wetsuit, the hotel bill and the extra gas $$ notwithstanding.

Next up, Rescue Diver. Then I'll pick up another couple of PADI's specialty cards so I can get my Master Scuba Diver rating.

 

[tddfleming]

My .02 cents, as an old (inactive) instructor...

When I taught advanced classes, back in the 80's, in the Tampa Bay area, I tailored the dives to what the divers would be doing once outside the "instructor cradle" environment.
First night was gear modification (get rid of danglies, streamline everything possible (correct hose lengths, etc. ) and check out all accesories (lights, compass, reels, etc.)
We discussed all environments to be experienced in the class...cavern (not cave!), beach entry (low viz, compass use/navigation), boat/drift diving, night diving, and deep diving/simulated decompression. SCA rate calculation, gas management. Rescue was discussed and done, in a rudimentary way, as this was another class level.
Dives conducted were: Manatee Springs State Park (I was an active cave diving instructor)...headspring (heavy flow acclimation, propulsion techniques), Catfish Hotel sink (buoyancy control, trim, propulsion techniques (anti silting), reel and gudeline use, light signalling, hand signals, lights out (mask blackout) drills, and emergency swimming and sharing air ascent skills from 50 ft. deep to the surface. Essentially a mini-cavern course. Three dives, approx. 2 hrs. TBT.
Second day: Bradenton Beach, Sugar Barge wreck...beach/surf (if there was any!) entry/exit, low visibility navigation compass use (reciprocal and triangulation courses), buddy team contact, buddy surface assist/rescue techniques, surface marker deployment. Two dives, approx. 2 hours. TBT.
Third/Fourth days: W. Palm Beach...boat diving skills. drift diving techniques, night/drift diving, simple wreck diving skills (orientation, contact point (anchor/upline) recognition, simple short penetration techniques (minimal overhead), simulated drift decompression. Five dives, approx. three hours TBT.
Fifth day: Deep/simulated decompression dive (I had access to a controlled access sinkhole with max depth (vertical ascent, no overhead ) to 220 ft.)...reel and guideline use, light hand signal communication, low visibilty communication (seasonal), precision buoyancy control, gas management, simulated decompression. Two dives,approx. bottom time 1 hour.
I felt that by the time a student had succesfully completed the course (I did require some to redo some skills, primarily compass and buoyancy control, in subsequent classes, about 20% or so) they were at least exposed to a wide variety of diving environments, and had the skills/knowledge to make good decisions about thier abilities to safely conduct dives in a variety of situations. A large percentage then took the rescue course, and a good percentage took a cavern and even cave diving course later on. I must admit that Florida offers probably the widest variety of diving environment variation of almost any place on the planet, from fanny-dunk, prime visibility warm water shallow reef dives to extremely advanced cave, deep, and heavy current wreck dives, so teaching a varied course was pretty easy to arrange.
It's not about how many dives, IMHO, but the variety of dives done....you can have 500 dives in the quarry (or the Keys), but you WILL NOT be qualified to dive in any overhead environment, of any consequence, or on a deep wreck in a 3 knot current...until you are further trained!

I wish I could find something like this here in VA. As for FL, we are hoping to move there in a year or two. Please PM me if you know of any shops down there that can provide this type of training.

As someone else already stated, after OW I did not feel at all comfortable out on my own. I tagged along with a couple of classes and stayed kind of close by the inst. As long as I brought a dive buddy we did not count against inst to student ratio. Which worked for me. After doing that a couple times I/we felt a little better. This past weekend my daughter and I went out on our own to a local quarry. We had to good time, had fun and we have found the more we go out and spread our wings the better we get.

 

[Crowley]

I personally think this post belongs in whine and cheese - not Q and A for scuba certification agencies. I think what I'm about to say also belong there...!

As I always say - the PADI Advanced Open Water course is an advancement of the Open Water certification, nothing more. It teaches extra techniques and knowledge that go beyond the remit of the beginner classes. It is neither designed nor intended to turn people into the greatest diver the world has ever seen. With this in mind, and I know others disagree, I encourage people to take their AOW as soon after OW as possible. I have, through experience, found that this method works well, although obviously not for everybody.

Some of the dives are basic experiences, some of them actually teach some really interesting stuff, and it seems like the OP has been let down by the dive operation. The material requirements are the Adventures in Diving Book, you don't need to buy any DVDs, the course fees, and the certification fee. You are required to be pre-assessed, which might mean a check dive and a quick knowledge review. These are often split into extra charges by dive centres so that you can maybe buy the book elsewhere for less money before taking the course, take each dive individually and not pay the certification fee up front just in case you don't finish the course - through illness, injury or incompetence, it matters not. Would you ever believe it? A dive business philosophy designed to potentially SAVE the customer money!!

My centre (and other previous employers and centres I am familiar with) charge materials and certification separately, but otherwise all equipment rental including knives, reels, ropes, computers or whatever - plus "instructor fees" - is included in the price. Certification fees, as always, are charged as extra and all of this is explained up front.

If I want to buy a new car, I ask around. I read reviews of the car and ask people who have experience driving it. I look at different models from the same company and I look at similar models from different companies. I look under the hood and ask questions about expenses to be incurred after I purchase the vehicle in terms of fuel costs and maintenance. When I have arrived at a decision I like, I will purchase the car. It probably won't be the cheapest car, it probably won't be the most technically excellent car, but it will be the car that suits me best given my budget and requirements.

Why don't people *look* when it comes to diving? How much; what is involved; what will I learn; can I get recommendations from other students? Some people will have good opinions, some bad, just like some people think the Delorian was a big expensive mistake and some people think it's *really* cool. What the customer needs to do is take informed opinion and make a judgement based on that information.

Yes, it's a business. I want your business because I enjoy simple pleasures in life such as eating, and being able to pay rent on my apartment, and making sure my cat gets fed twice a day. You can put words into any acronym you like: PADI - Pay And Die Instantly; NAUI - Nauseating And Unwanted Instruction; TDI - Tedious Demonstration of Incomptence; SEI - Seriously Excessive Information; BSAC - Beer, Sweat And Cardigans.... good grief I could offend everybody doing this!

Caveat Emptor - "Warning, Buyer" - If you bought a car because it seemed like a good idea at the time or looked good on the outside and realised it was a lemon the moment you left the shop, was that the car-dealer's fault? Or did you just accept what they said like a lamb being led to the big shed at the end of the farm?

Please folks - shop around and ask questions - don't just go and do something and complain about it later.

Cheers,

C.