LDS BS in Nitrox class today...

[InkDiver]

Really? I think thats Extremely debatable based on the Tons of posts that say otherwise... ie. that they didnt have problems UNTIL they serviced their reg.

Dont fix it if it aint broke... in the event of an acute, catastrophic 2nd stage failure to both my primary, secondary AND pony 2nd I'll surface breathing off the free-flowing reg.

Wow, really???? REALLY?????????? And if your "unserviced" first stage fails, what's the plan then? It happens. Sorry, but regular reg service is not a scam. But it sounds like you've got it all figured out. Good luck with that.

 

[Goindrinkn]

I would skew this back to CO2 retention by saying that "at greater depth" it is harder to move the gas in and out and CO2 build up can be a function of this. (remember the 15 inch snokel vs the 10 foot one? dead space?) So anything that inhibits the flow of gas like a less than optimally work reg could be a factor. It may not be the exact cause, or the only or biggest factor, but it does make a difference.

Now to the OP, I'd ask that you remember one thing. The Nitrox classes that most OW and AOW students take are usually one evening or day. Remember in OW they told you to never / ever under any circomstances hold your breath. - But after a while you realized that there are times it happens (like taking a picture or maintaining a depth) where you might hold it for a second or two. But for new students it's easier just to say never ever so they don't do it while asending. In these classes the information is distilled and generalized so that the main points could be consumed in a short amount of time. I think the idea here was it is that an unserviced regulator could be a factor and another reminder/reason that all your gear should be serviced routinely. Stuff does wear out, and most of us (myself included) have wondered why shell out the bucks if it is working fine.

just my nickel.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

Wow, really???? REALLY?????????? And if your "unserviced" first stage fails, what's the plan then? It happens. Sorry, but regular reg service is not a scam. But it sounds like you've got it all figured out. Good luck with that.

What's your plan if your serviced regulator fails? It happens.

Seems like the plan should be the same either way.

Ahhh...the fear mongers are out and about.

 

[PvtStash]

What's your plan if your serviced regulator fails? It happens.

that regs fail open... they freeflow, they dont stop delivering air...

but if the inconceivable Did happen and I lost both my primary and 2ndary 2nds, I'd use my pony.

 

[PvtStash]

If those are your typical dive profiles, then you aren't getting any benefit from Nitrox anyway. Why waste time and money on the class at all?

I don't take anything he said ... as you posted it ... as fear-mongering. Rather, perhaps, he didn't do such a good job of explaining why that might be the case.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Those Arent my typical dive profiles... it was simply an example scenario in an attempt to discover How exactly an unserviced reg could be contributing to elevated CO2 levels even with a diver that was Not working hard to breath, or exerting himself, and clearing his lungs effectively... and I still dont really know... jus' some allusions to "well you Could be working hard to breath and not Know it" (right.)

I agree he didnt do such a good job explaining it... over-emphasizing the servicing and making a claim that is a bit of a stretch...

 

[PvtStash]

Is it possible you had your mind made up before you asked the question?

realize this doesnt nescessarily make me Wrong.

 

[Kingpatzer]

that regs fail open... they freeflow, they dont stop delivering air...

but if the inconceivable Did happen and I lost both my primary and 2ndary 2nds, I'd use my pony.

My wife's reg failed closed. It does happen. And very few divers diving recreational depths carry a pony.

To the original question: it is not false to state that a poorly serviced reg can cause CO2 retention.

That may be a slightly (and I stress slightly) over simplified statement, but it is not in any way a deception unless the instructor was saying that the only cause of CO2 retention is a poorly serviced regulator.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Heyhey I want to run something past you guys that I feel is suspect information...

Today I was doing the in-class portion of my Nitrox class and as part of the presentation one of the things the instructor covered was CO2 retention and the problems associated with it.

Now, I'm familiar with CO2 retention and had believed that it was encountered Purely as a result of ineffective/incomplete breathing patterns (ie. breathing too shallow/not fully emptying the lungs)

BUT he also trys to tell me that its related to people who dont service their regs regularly...

er... huh? Dammit. my BS alarms were in the red and I'm feeling like I'm being lied to/misled in order to sell shop services I probably dont need. (I am of the 'dont fix it if it aint broke' mentality and until I have a problem with my regs I dont intend to have them overhauled, plus for what they'll charge for the Regular service plan I could buy a brand new reg every 3-4 years)

So my question is... does not getting your reg serviced have ANYTHING to do with CO2 retention? (I'm guessing !@#$ no it doesnt)

I'd really hate to think that the instructor Truely believes this, but if the choice is ignorance vs. deceptive salesman its a lose-lose proposition.

that the reg Itself is NOT causing CO2 retention , only that it COULD be a factor IF its Making you breath hard at Depth, but if its not hard to breath has absolutely NOTHING to do with CO2 retention.

I see no discrepency between the two bolded statements.

that STILL doesnt sound like the Reg thats doing it to me...

to me it sounds like your talking about ineffective/incomplete breathing , working hard, and at depth breathing... yes all of those are factors, but how about this...

Given 40' depth, no exertion, no ineffective breathing how does an un-serviced reg make my CO2 higher?

Those Arent my typical dive profiles... it was simply an example scenario in an attempt to discover How exactly an unserviced reg could be contributing to elevated CO2 levels even with a diver that was Not working hard to breath, or exerting himself, and clearing his lungs effectively...

Did the instructor state that this would be the case for 40' dives? A lot of regulators that work fine at 40' won't function so well at 100'. Different circumstances ... different results.

Ok so your suggesting that someone could be working hard to breath and Not know it?

Because there seems to be a discrepancy in that the diver says its working perfectly/Not having any breathing difficulty but the Flowbench says it IS making the diver work hard to breath? Wouldnt the Diver be the one to know if he/she is working to breathe?

The idea that I could be "working hard but dont Know it" seems like so much fearmongering scaretactics.

Actually, it can be reality, depending on the diver and the dive profile.

Really? I think thats Extremely debatable based on the Tons of posts that say otherwise... ie. that they didnt have problems UNTIL they serviced their reg.

That suggests to me that these people are just turning their regs over to a dive shop and "trusting" that the person working on them knows what he or she is doing. Do you get your car or computer serviced that way?

realize this doesnt nescessarily make me Wrong.

Not necessarily, but the real answer is ... like most things involving scuba diving ... that it depends on the circumstances. He could easily be right.

Right now, you've got very limited experience to draw from ... and from your profile it sounds like you've only ever experienced diving in a quarry. Differences in dive conditions, salt water vs fresh water, cold water vs warm water, etc will eventually help you realize that almost everything about diving is situational ... and the answer to most diving-related questions depends on the conditions in which you dive.

It's good to question what you are taught ... I encourage my students to ask "why" if I say something they don't understand or accept ... on the other hand, if you so doubt your instructor as to question his motives for what he's telling you, then you are clearly with the wrong instructor. My recommendation is to find someone else to take your dive classes with.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Lead_carrier]

realize this doesnt nescessarily make me Wrong.

Doesn't nescessarily make you Right either.

I can't believe that you are being disputed on here Stash, even by the ones that have hundreds even thousands of dives. And just because they have been in the industry for a couple of decades. I agree with you totally. Wait until the reg breaks totally down before you service it. Its a simple process after that.

:signofcross:
:blessing:

:angel2::angel2::angel2:

 

[redacted]

Wait until the reg breaks totally down before you service it. Its a simple process after that.

:signofcross:
:blessing:

:angel2::angel2::angel2:

Is that the only other option? Is it this or "regular service"? How do you know when to replace tires or have your brakes serviced?

"Regular service" is unnecessary if a diver learns to inspect their regulators and identify incipient and minor problems indicating a need for service before the problem seriously impacts performance. Instructors who preach "regular service" during a nitrox course are using the training time students bought to hawk their business.