LDS Charging to TRY ON wetsuits???

[spectrum]

I can understand the shop to a point. There are (many?) folks using the LDS as a fitting room for online purchases. This ties up staff, and probably results in the occasional suit with a nipped spine seal or other damage. The depth of he inventory is what it is so it's a wash. No shop is going to bring in a deep stock just for these people to use for trying one. The same goods are there for retail sale.

The fee needs to be creditable to a future purchase if a fit is not found. There is a gray area where the diver does not like the fit but the store thinks its a good fit. At worst the customer buys the same suit online and the store has a free loan.

It is an ugly situation to deal with but given the varied business models it's hard to accept that the LDS needs to be a punching bag.

Pete

 

[DazedAndConfuzed]

If you charge $25 (even if refundable) to try on a wetsuit, you don't just lose all the customers that just wanted to check the sizing, you will end up losing some customers, who either wants to cross shop different brands from different shops, casual window shoppers who just might buy, or t e ones that just gets put off for having to pay up front to try something.

If you don't charge anything, you will get the above people along with the size testers. Unless the shop is so busy that you are actually losing sales with these people (attending them instead of somebody else, they use up dressing room where a real customer leaves), then you are providing a service that might potentially gain a customer, especially if you let them know you have no problem with people doing this, but do hope to gain their business somehow.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I think the $25 charge is rediculous.
Fortunately I don't have to worry about it since I will only fit into a custom made suit.
I get my suits from a custom builder down in Long Beach and his prices are higher than an LDS but the quality of material and craftsmanship is way higher than anything available at any retail outlet be it online or LDS. My suits last twice as long as anything I've ever purchased off the rack. The cost of the suit might be 20 to 25% more initially, but in the long run I save money, plus I know that my money went to a guy in the USA to make it and not some Chinese sweat shop.

Leisure pro I think is feeling the pinch from other online competition. There are so many online dealers now, and their prices are cut so low with free shipping and other toys thrown in that eventually a few are going to have to cave in. The healthy LDS's that are very customer service oriented and friendly plus are willing to give a 10 to 15% discount accross the board will do fine. But if they start with the $25 suit try on fee crap that will do nothing but piss of customers and they will find somewhere else to go.

 

[elmer fudd]

This really sounds more inept than desperate. The real way for LDS's to compete with internet retailers is to beat them at their own game. As dealers they have privileges, like wholesale pricing or the ability to offer warranties on certain brands that the online sellers can't. They can officially service gear. They can fill tanks. They can offer classes. One of the shops around here consistently beats the internet for prices on tanks and they come damn close on big ticket items like drysuits. They run a great store, so I give them my business.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

There can be a solution like this. Customers wrongly using this LDS as a fitting room don't leave the place and start bad-mouthing it. It's called catering to the customer. "The customer is always right" or something like that from bygone times.

Unfortunately, that adage had an implied responsibility by the customer to make an honest attempt to do the right thing ... in modern culture, responsibility seems to be a forgotten concept.

An example of how customer behavior forced me to change my own policies ... I train to higher than minimum standards. My approach has always been that we set course objectives ... and the class is over when the objectives have been met. For this reason, there is no "minimum" number of dives. I've been known to do as many as 10 dives for OW ... and 14 for one particular student in AOW. And I'm happy to provide that service, because it turns out more competent, confident divers. A side-effect of that policy is that my class schedules tend to be a bit flexible ... and I encourage students to do the responsible thing and if somethign isn't feeling right, call the dive.

Last year that got translated by one particular pair of students as the right to call me the morning of our scheduled dives and tell me they were stuffed up ... or had a headache ... or their ears were bothering them ... and reschedule the dive. Often this would happen about the time I was showing up at the dive site ... or in one case, just after I had gone out and set up the navigation course. In total they rescheduled 11 times ... costing me not just travel expenses, but also the ability to have used those days for other activities.

I finally had to tell them that any further cancellations would result in a $50 rescheduling fee. And now that's written into my policy. I can choose to waive it, if I feel the cancellation is for a legitimate reason. But the point is that if inconveniencing someone you're getting a service from doesn't cost you anything, there will always be a certain percentage of people who won't think twice about it.

The reality is that the customer isn't always right ... because, as my course director once told me when I was training to become an instructor ... if you don't put a value on your time and services, neither will they.

If you want to blame someone for a decline in services that vendors offer their customers, blame that percentage of people who will always seek a way to "game" the service, costing the vendor money. No one you buy a product or service from can afford to just give away their time and inventory for free. Those days are gone forever. They went away when so many people in this country developed the attitude that somehow, someone else owes them something ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fjpatrum]

Simple solution, tell them that you'll be happy to pay the $25 if they credit it toward the purchase and it's only one fee to try on as many wetsuits as you need with personalized help (if you want) for at least 2 hours. I don't know too many shop employees making much more than $10-12 an hour so that seems reasonable to me. If they don't find it reasonable, tell them you'll spend all your money somewhere else and make it a point to explain why.

 

[redacted]

Simple solution, tell them that you'll be happy to pay the $25 if they credit it toward the purchase and it's only one fee to try on as many wetsuits as you need with personalized help (if you want) for at least 2 hours. I don't know too many shop employees making much more than $10-12 an hour so that seems reasonable to me. If they don't find it reasonable, tell them you'll spend all your money somewhere else and make it a point to explain why.

Better yet, how about a full refund with the purchase (receipt) of any wetsuit from ANY LDS within 30 days. Most shops have a very limited selection of brands and some brands just don't fit some divers very well - not just a sizing problem.

I just don't see such a move working out for any LDS that tries it. Online shoppers are just not a big profit source. Pissed off customers may actually cause the loss of other customers.

 

[scubadobadoo]

SO here we all go again with just another take on the same old debate where we discuss the positives and negatives of buy buying gear online on an online forum. This irony always seems to be missed.

In this specific case, the OP was well intentioned so my comments are certainly made in that context. Please keep that in mind.

IMHO, if a store HAS to charge 25 bucks to try on a wet suit to stay in business then maybe someone picked the wrong business to buy.

IMHO, if a customer comes in and is told that the shop will match online prices and the customer still leaves and buys from the internet then the sales person didn't do their job properly.

We all want LDs's to do well. I honestly believe that, even those of us who spend some of our money online. That said, with the exception of a very few LDS's who have found a way to make it work for a number of various reasons both in their control and not, most will close without a profit. That's not a customer's fault.

If you buy a LDS you better have some money to lose going into it and I hope you are a business person first and not a weekend diver first. Otherwise you might start charging decent people for what the online shops are doing for free and with way more choices and better prices. This is the business you chose so deal with it and choose to evolve into this global economy or stop whining and get out while you still own your house.

In the end, this is a common sense issue and the LDS in this case is biting of their nose to spite their face. Ask ten people if they would pay 25 bucks just to try stuff on in a store. My guess is that 9 out of 10 would generally say no. How can this be a good business decision?

 

[scubadobadoo]

Unfortunately, that adage had an implied responsibility by the customer to make an honest attempt to do the right thing ... in modern culture, responsibility seems to be a forgotten concept.

An example of how customer behavior forced me to change my own policies ... I train to higher than minimum standards. My approach has always been that we set course objectives ... and the class is over when the objectives have been met. For this reason, there is no "minimum" number of dives. I've been known to do as many as 10 dives for OW ... and 14 for one particular student in AOW. And I'm happy to provide that service, because it turns out more competent, confident divers. A side-effect of that policy is that my class schedules tend to be a bit flexible ... and I encourage students to do the responsible thing and if somethign isn't feeling right, call the dive.

Last year that got translated by one particular pair of students as the right to call me the morning of our scheduled dives and tell me they were stuffed up ... or had a headache ... or their ears were bothering them ... and reschedule the dive. Often this would happen about the time I was showing up at the dive site ... or in one case, just after I had gone out and set up the navigation course. In total they rescheduled 11 times ... costing me not just travel expenses, but also the ability to have used those days for other activities.

I finally had to tell them that any further cancellations would result in a $50 rescheduling fee. And now that's written into my policy. I can choose to waive it, if I feel the cancellation is for a legitimate reason. But the point is that if inconveniencing someone you're getting a service from doesn't cost you anything, there will always be a certain percentage of people who won't think twice about it.

The reality is that the customer isn't always right ... because, as my course director once told me when I was training to become an instructor ... if you don't put a value on your time and services, neither will they.

If you want to blame someone for a decline in services that vendors offer their customers, blame that percentage of people who will always seek a way to "game" the service, costing the vendor money. No one you buy a product or service from can afford to just give away their time and inventory for free. Those days are gone forever. They went away when so many people in this country developed the attitude that somehow, someone else owes them something ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

...but Bob, YOUR example makes sense and is justified. Penalizing everyone, even the well intentioned customer, because the internet exists doesn't make sense to me. I would be hard pressed to find anyone who would be in a hurry to get to a store that charged to try things on.

As for, "an implied responsibility by the customer to make an honest attempt to do the right thing..." That's working under the assumption that the LDS is even doing the right thing. Unfortunately at many (not all thankfully) LDS's I have left with the same creepy feeling I left with after shopping on a car lot. The desperate experiences can be very similar sometimes.

Bob, you are rightly defending your LDS's ideals and your practices but I don't believe the LDS in question is the same as you or your LDS just based on what I have read so far.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

If they are going to start charging $25 for people to try on wetsuits then why not start charging by the minute to show somebody a reg or try on and have different fins explained.
Maybe they could get $5.00 for each BC fitting up to 5 minutes and every minute there after charge $1.00 per minute.
What about masks? why not start charging $2.00 for each mask tried on?
Why not start charging a door cover charge to just go into the shop?


Where would this end?