LDS Scare Tactics?

[ScubaDru]

I recently emailed a LDS in Michigan where I live asking about their Apeks regs. I was looking for a package similar to one I have my eye on @ scubastore.com:
Apeks DS4 w/ ATX50 and ATX40 octo. I just got an email back from this particular store with most of the usual support your LDS "encouragement". But then he raises two issues that I just find highly questionable.

1st: "The Aqua Lung warranty is only available through U.S. authorized dealers and represents a major savings over gray market products."

Right, I know I'm not gonna get my "parts for life" deal if I buy from Spain (DiveInn/ScubaStore), so I end up paying for parts AND labor every service. Even still, the up front savings in the bank (online over the LDS) gives me YEARS worth of parts and service costs built in. It would take approx five years of paying $100+ annually for parts and service to even reach the initial cost of the LDS. What "major savings over gray market products" am I missing?

2nd: "If you choose to purchase Aqua Lung products from an unauthorized dealer you will not be able to get service for the product because of insurance issues."

From what I've read over and over again on scubaboard, this is just not true! Insurance issues? How is my paying out the butt for marked-up parts plus service going to raise some safety issue? Seems like stores should be pushing service, since thats the ONLY arena they will always have an upper hand on over online. If I'm not gonna buy gear from them, then they should at least be eager to invite and secure my business through reliable service.

I got certified down in Elyria Ohio (go to school at Oberlin College) but live in Michigan. I'm not "attatched" to any of the LDS here at home, so I don't feel obligated to buy from any one of the half dozen or so within reasonable driving distance. Mind you, I'm making an effort to make in-roads into the local diving community by exploring what the LDS's have to offer, but I might not even live in the midwest come medschool. It just doesn't make sense to me, especially at this transitory, end of college phase, to "buy-in" to any particular group by padding the pockets of the LDS patriarch/matriarch.

 

[scubamate]

Geeezz! Here we go again!

 

[ScubaDru]

Geeezz! Here we go again!

?? did I say something wrong ??

 

[mike_s]

You can still buy this from an Authorized US Dealer other than your local dive shop and still get full warranty with parts at service.

My LDS sells them. They just can't be sold as online, but I don't think that excludes you from calling one of these diveshops and saying "hey, can you mail me one". I'd buy one from an authorized dealer, whether it's local or over the phone instead of one from some "grey market" dealer.

You can always ask your local shop to match the online price.

 

[scubamate]

No, sorry but there was a long thread on this within the last few days. When I figure out how to do a search for something specific, I'll post a link for you.

Here's one I'm sure there's more.

http://www.scubaboard.com/showthread.php?t=94671&highlight=scubapro

 

[Doc Intrepid]

No, you didn't. It's simply a debate that nearly every new diver ponders. Since this board has over 40,000 members on it, many of whom are newer divers, the debate surfaces frequently.

Your conclusions aren't exactly offbase, its simply an issue that has no answer that will make sense for all divers, nor any one diver for all occasions.

The initial purchase price may be much less off the internet. (Assuming you get recent stock, bona fide goods, etc.) If you are transitory, however, unless you have some type of warranty card you can take from dealer to dealer, its the same either way to you - walk into a LDS in some state you just moved to and guess what? They won't know or care where the hell you got your stuff - all they know is it wasn't from them. You'll pay full price for service and maintenance.

OTOH, I've seen cases where (dealer's) service technicians screw up regulators (e.g. put scratches on the inside) during maintenance. With a warranty you've got standing. Without one, you may have problems.

A relationship with a LDS is rewarding and worth cultivating. If you're transitory, however, and not really in the area to begin with for any length of time, it may be irrelevant to you.

The best decisions are going to be based on individual circumstances, which are going to vary from diver to diver and from time to time in the life of any individual diver.

Make what appears to be the best decision for you, for now. About the best you can do.

Regards,

Doc

 

[ScubaDru]

OTOH, I've seen cases where (dealer's) service technicians screw up regulators (e.g. put scratches on the inside) during maintenance. With a warranty you've got standing. Without one, you may have problems.

Doc

First, Thanks all for the info! I've been sorta reading/watching from the curtains for a while and wanted to start becoming more active in discussion. Not that I have alot to offer...


The question of manufacturer's vs. "online" warranty. Places like leisurepro and DiveInn say that they will "pick up" the warranty of the product in leu of the manufacturer's warranty. In the case of a technician screwing up a reg, how would a manftcr's warranty be any better than the stand-in?

 

[SDAnderson]

You don't want to "pad the pockets" of any local dive shops and they don't feel the need to provide service to you if you won't. Hmmm...

Aqualung will allow them to service the regulator, without regard for where you bought it. I don't know about their insurance company, but I suspect they're blowing smoke up your keister on that one. Nonetheless, they've put you on notice that they don't want to business with you if you buy through the channels you've indicated that you're going to pursue. If I owned the dive shop, I would handle situations like yours differently - but if you aren't going to be a profitable customer, I wouldn't want you in my shop, either.

Just curious (since it seems that you have your mind made up about where you are going to purchase the regulator) what information were you seeking when you contacted the shop?

 

[ScubaDru]

You don't want to "pad the pockets" of any local dive shops and they don't feel the need to provide service to you if you won't. Hmmm...

Aqualung will allow them to service the regulator, without regard for where you bought it. I don't know about their insurance company, but I suspect they're blowing smoke up your keister on that one. Nonetheless, they've put you on notice that they don't want to business with you if you buy through the channels you've indicated that you're going to pursue. If I owned the dive shop, I would handle situations like yours differently - but if you aren't going to be a profitable customer, I wouldn't want you in my shop, either.

Just curious (since it seems that you have your mind made up about where you are going to purchase the regulator) what information were you seeking when you contacted the shop?

I don't know much about business (I'm a science major), but to me it would make sense to treat every customer as a "profitable" one. Word of mouth is perhaps the BEST form of advertising, that much I know, and if I can be a happy little diver and get my friends to do the same, then thats good business. Theres no reason for an LDS to treat someone who bought online any differently. To the LDS, every diver is a potential "buddy", and buddy's become partners... this relationship is not possible online. The LDS has nothing to loose... Online isn't going anywhere soon, so why not make the best of the "people-side" of the market. Of course Best buy has the power to put the "classic stereo" out of business, but there will always be a spot for the intelligent niche business owner.

In my email, I just told the LDS that I would rather buy locally than from online and asked for a quote on the Apeks DS4 ATX50 / ATX40. I TOLD him I wanted to buy from him... I live on the other side of the state and I was willing to buy from him... he just told me to come in and we could talk... fair enough, but not enticing.

 

[SDAnderson]

I don't know much about business (I'm a science major), but to me it would make sense to treat every customer as a "profitable" one.

It makes sense to treat every person with respect but if the customer ain't profitable, they need to be politely shown the door. Failure to do so results in...failure. In your own field, take a look at what happens to hospitals and practices that don't/can't discriminate between profitable and unprofitable customers.​

Word of mouth is perhaps the BEST form of advertising, that much I know, and if I can be a happy little diver and get my friends to do the same, then thats good business.

Word of mouth is definitely the best form of advertising. There is, however, the issue of targeted marketing. As a business, I want my advertising programs pointed at prospective customers that will make me money. I REALLY don't want an unprofitable customer telling all his friends how wonderful I am - because, demographically speaking, customers tend to clump together.​

Theres no reason for an LDS to treat someone who bought online any differently.

Sure there is. If they don't make any money from a relationship, they care less about that relationship than the one they have with the guy who bought the same regulator from them. The more important the customer, the better the treatment they are going to get - that's the way of the world. In business, "important" is nearly synonomous with "profit." You, on the other hand, don't represent "important," you represent "no return on time and money invested" to this shop and, if their analysis is correct, they should pull the plug on you.​

To the LDS, every diver is a potential "buddy", and buddy's become partners... this relationship is not possible online. The LDS has nothing to loose... Online isn't going anywhere soon, so why not make the best of the "people-side" of the market. Of course Best buy has the power to put the "classic stereo" out of business, but there will always be a spot for the intelligent niche business owner.

The dive shop has a LOT to lose by dealing with unprofitable customers - first and foremost, the business. Obviously online sales aren't going away and good shop owners will adapt to the new reality, but customers have to adjust to that same new reality, too. You and I agree that the shop is handling this wrong, but he clearly thinks that you aren't offering him anything that would induce him to care what you think.​

In my email, I just told the LDS that I would rather buy locally than from online and asked for a quote on the Apeks DS4 ATX50 / ATX40. I TOLD him I wanted to buy from him... I live on the other side of the state and I was willing to buy from him... he just told me to come in and we could talk... fair enough, but not enticing.

Seems fair enough. Sorry that it didn't work out with him. Hopefully, you will be able to find a vendor that can provide you with the products and services you want at a price you are willing to pay.​