Legality Question

[shotthebreeze]

I know a lot of people talk about teaching their kids and taking friends diving without being an instructor or without having proper certification, which is wicked dangerous. I was wondering if any states ticket people who dive without a cert card? I know that you can get arrested for risk of injury to a minor if you have a kid out with you who isn't certified, but is there anything else you can get ticketed for?

 

[Scubasteve1982]

I know I'm pretty new to diving. But that sounds like a really bad idea. Any diver should know the risks of diving and that a person without training is at an even higher risk. Just reading about all the accidents that happen to skilled diver should be enough to scare someone away from taking responsibility for someone without the proper training and Certification. Imagine how you would feel if you took a friend diving that wasn't properly trained and something happen to them. I wouldn't want to live the rest of my life knowing that it was my fault.

 

[spectrum]

I know that you can get arrested for risk of injury to a minor if you have a kid out with you who isn't certified, but is there anything else you can get ticketed for?

Remember that at least here in the U.S. the diving industry is self regulated. There are aspects of cylinder maintenance and usage the come into the realm of the U.S.DOT.

Well there is this gem in your home state.

Most states with fisheries of value have regulations on certain forms of hunting ranging from critters having allowable seasons to our total prohibition of divers taking lobster in Maine.

Pete

 

[driftwood]

As I understand it, the requirement of a C card is for the shop's liability insurance. At least in Texas there is no state agency that regulates scuba diving, but laws vary from state to state. A lot of things are bad ideas without being illegal.

 

[Brandon]

Hrm, interesting question.

There's no law I'm aware of that requires you to be certified to dive, although I wouldn't be surprised if some popular diving locale attempted to pass an ordinance like that.

It may qualify as Reckless Endangerment, depending on the circumstances:

Alaska's state RE statute reads: A person commits the crime of reckless endangerment if the person recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of serious physical injury to another person.

Alaska defines reckless as: aware of and consciously disregarding a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the result will occur or that the circumstance exists; the risk must be of such a nature and degree that disregard of it constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of conduct that a reasonable person would observe in the situation.

Most states should read similarly.

Are you throwing gear on your buddy's back, telling him it's just like swimming, then tossing him in the water with no further mention of the inherent dangers or risks of diving? That would seem to meet a standard of conduct we could describe as reckless. Is it likely that someone would do this to a buddy or a client? Gosh, I hope not.

What if the person provides some amount of 'instruction' prior to taking an uncertified diver diving? Makes an effort to ensure that its done 'safely'? Informs that person of the risks involved, the main areas of danger, etc.? You've moved away from reckless conduct if you've done any of this... but talk about some serious civil liability concerns.

Is it wise or recommended? Nope.

-B

 

[fisherdvm]

There is no law on how old a child has to be before he uses a firearm, fly an airplane (at the control I mean), scuba dive, drive a tractor, or ride an ATV.

My nephew got his first rifle at the age of like 5. He shot a grass hopper with a laser sighted BB gun at like the age of 3. Sure it can be dangerous. But properly trained, a 12 year old scuba diver might be a safer diver and buddy than an 18 yo smart ass out of scuba instructor school.

At least that is my opinion.

 

[Cajuncru Diver]

Just a word of advice....if you decide to try it....don't worry about the criminal statutes in your state so much as make sure you have a VERY LARGE policy of personal liability insurance to cover the cost of litigation you find yourself involved in that will drag out for a very extended period of time....not to mention the probably very substantial Judgment that will be rendered against you in the civil court action!

 

[seaducer]

laser sighted BB gun

OP, I am not aware of any laws, so I doubt you would be held criminally responsible, however, if you are certified and have knowledge of the risks, and something goes wrong, a civil suit will have your jewels...

 

[DiveBZ]

I completely understand the need for certification agencies - but lets be honest here.

All the certification agency does in the OW course is scare the piss out of you about lung over expansion and getting bent. The dive tables are extremely important, but could be taught second hand, and most divers will rely on a computer anyways. Everything else is a practical skill or common sense, and of course, teaching someone not to panic.

Provided said Parent could teach said child all of the same skills that are necessary to pass OW, I honestly don't see the issue other than lack of an instructor certificate that cost bookoo bucks to obtain into the agencies pocket.

I'm CERTAINLY not advocating diving without proper training. My son will be getting certified soon, and you better believe he will go through the course just like I did.

However, at the end of the day, the basic skills to dive properly do not require formal training. You need someone who can show you how to do it, and make sure you are capable of doing it on your own.

Technical/Deep/Drift, etc, I have a completely different opinion when it comes to non-rec diving.

All I'm saying is that it would be very feasible to train someone else as long as you made sure they understood the risks of blowing off the RDP tables or ignoring their computers. The whole point of OW is to orient you with the gear and teach you basic skills while making sure you realize how badly you can be hurt by diving stupidly.

Basic diving is not rocket science, and it's really not that hard. Especially if you have two licks of sense and can read the computer and do what it says. I could have passed the PADI OW course without ever having opened the first handbook, and the in-water skills that were required to pass it were very simplistic, and easy to grasp.

AGAIN - I am not advocating un-trained divers - simply making an observation.

I would always rather dive with someone who was formally trained.

I could have probably started as a Cop with no formal training - and probably done just fine, until some of the really technical constitutional stuff popped up. IE - Deep/Enriched/Etc.

Case in point - how many places in Mexico/Bahama's can you dive without ever having your C-Card checked. I know of at least 4 off the top of my head that I had experienced first hand, even before I was certified. And NO - I never dove without being certified.

 

[ScubaSarus]

It would be up to local ordinence. There are areas within states were certs are asked for. Many local parks etc. Also here in Stonington, CT you can not dive off the rocks at the point. etc.

So yeah check local ordinences.