Let's do an easy dive

[JohnnyC]

I'm confused, JohnnyC. Do you believe a dive where the surface isn't safe is really an open water dive? Or are you just looking for another opportunity to talk about how many more dives you've made than I have? I'll make it easy for you. I'm a fool and my opinions are of no consequence. There.

That's not it at all. I'm curious what you consider an open water dive and what you don't consider an open water dive. You can die in the Caribbean in 15 feet of water if you have no exposure protection and are stuck in the water for long enough. I don't know anyone that wouldn't consider that an open water dive. I don't see what point you're trying to make here. A technical diver is no safer on the surface than an open water diver than a snorkeler than a swimmer given surface conditions. That doesn't change the nature of the dive, nor the gas management requirements. Dealing with 6 foot swell doesn't mean it's a technical dive all of a sudden. We can talk about the suitability of making a dive in those conditions in the first place, but it doesn't change the nature of the dve.

I''m just not sure what point you're trying to make, not disparage you. I asked about you experience because it lets people qualify your opinion somehow. Me, I'm a technical cave diver and a rebreather diver with the commensurate experience (although I'm still relatively new to rebreather diving compared to many). I also do shallow reef dives with a single AL80 in the Caribbean, so I'm not unfamiliar with the entire gamut of conditions. That experience shapes my perspective. What is your experience that shapes yours?

 

[diver0008]

The problem with simply following the rule of thirds is that in many scenarios it's just not conservative enough

Agree. I would call it a guideline more than a rule, to be monitored closely and adjusted in real-time as necessary.

 

[2airishuman]

That's not it at all. I'm curious what you consider an open water dive and what you don't consider an open water dive. You can die in the Caribbean in 15 feet of water if you have no exposure protection and are stuck in the water for long enough. I don't know anyone that wouldn't consider that an open water dive. I don't see what point you're trying to make here. A technical diver is no safer on the surface than an open water diver than a snorkeler than a swimmer given surface conditions. That doesn't change the nature of the dive, nor the gas management requirements. Dealing with 6 foot swell doesn't mean it's a technical dive all of a sudden. We can talk about the suitability of making a dive in those conditions in the first place, but it doesn't change the nature of the dve.

I''m just not sure what point you're trying to make.

My point of view is that if there isn't a safe surface and the dive must be concluded at a particular exit point (or one of several), then it's really not an open water dive. It doesn't matter much whether the surface is nonexistent (cave, ice), inaccessible (deco), or unsafe (as in the present discussion). While it is true that each of these environments poses its own specific hazards requiring environment-specific training, equipment, and techniques, they share the fact that the dive cannot be concluded safely by an immediate return to the surface.

Open water diving implies a safe surface. Under adverse conditions, the surface must be made safe. In your example of being in 15' of water in the Caribbean with no exposure protection, the question would be whether the surface is safe for a sufficient time to allow rescuers to arrive. Perhaps a few hours, on the outside, and I think most divers choose their exposure protection accordingly. In the conditions that are the subject of this thread, a diver contemplating a dive must plan the dive so the surface is either safe or (for the sake of discussion, anyway) unnecessary.

The point here really is about thinking through how safe the surface is before every dive. Current, boats, distance to shore, time to rescue, cold, wind, weather, swell, flotation, problems with exhaustion or loss of a fin. I always have a plan.

What is your experience that shapes yours?

As I posted upthread, I am best understood as a fool, an inexperienced one at that. Who chiefly dives in freshwater lakes and streams, from shore. Cold, low viz, long surface swims, and unreliable dive boats like canoes.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

Do you believe a dive where the surface isn't safe is really an open water dive?

Yes this is an open water dive. And I hope whomever is diving has enough experience to call the OW dive if they are not comfortable.

 

[lowviz]

That speaks to JohnnyC's objection. And mine.

It seems (to me) that 2airishuman sees an OW dive as "safe" or it then becomes a technical dive. It isn't ever "safe", it is a just dive that is conducted within clear restrictions.

 

[lv2dive]

I believe there are several locations where tidal influences and/or current have to be taken into consideration when developing a dive plan. That does not mean they are not OW dives, simply one needs to consider additional variables.

I would agree, however, that something like a shipping lane creates a "virtual" overhead and would not qualify as an OW dive.

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

I would agree, however, that something like a shipping lane creates a "virtual" overhead and would not qualify as an OW dive.

I have never dove in a Shipping Lane - do you drag a flag in a shipping lane? If the answer is yes I would argue it is not an overhead - Virtual or not... That does not mean common sense prohibits you from surfacing. How does it work?

 

[Dizzi Lizzi]

Note to self: avoid shipping lanes.

 

[undrwater]

I've heard the term "soft surface" used before. It's an important distinction anyway.

"We're doing an open water dive, though if you find yourself below 60', you'll have a soft surface. Buddy separation procedure is to swim up to 40', then surface."

"What's a "soft surface"?"

"That's where the boats come into and out of the harbour."

 

[lowviz]

OMG, Dizzi Lizzi

OK, I'll try to take this one. Shipping lanes: Dive Sites - New Jersey - Manasquan - New Jersey Scuba Diving

Incoming lanes, outgoing lanes. Best if you don't get turned into chum for Shark Week by today's shipment of TV's, cars, new DPV's, whatever...

So the deal is that you crawl down the anchor line and have fun. If you know the wreck, go for it. If not, run a reel. Don't sweat the bottom. Clam draggers do far, far, far more damage than you ever could. Look for stuff on the wrecks. History. Super fun to find something and research it. Once found a cage lamp base with my fav neighbor's name on it as a manufacturer. So incredibly fun to research...

Crawl down the anchor line. Have fun. However, you damn well better crawl back up the same line (and within the time you reported to the cap'n).

Diving is situational. This is how we do it here. No brag, nothing special. It's just how we do it. Yep, inshore 60' too. Same rules apply. OW.