Light "Commercial" Diving

[Thalassamania]

I am not a "Mod," I am a "Guide" and I call 'em as I see 'em. IMHO, anyone who, out front, tries to get into a "mine's bigger than your's" is, in point of fact, juvenile, smilie or no smilie.

But again ... wow! Five dives a day, every day!

 

[fstbttms]

I am not a "Mod," I am a "Guide" and I call 'em as I see 'em. IMHO, anyone who, out front, tries to get into a "mine's bigger than your's" is, in point of fact, juvenile, smilie or no smilie.!

You need to get a sense of humor.

But again ... wow! Five dives a day, every day!

OK, I wasn't gonna explain the realities of owning a small business to you, but since you clearly haven't a clue about it and seem to have an issue with how much work you think I do, I will. I started my business from scratch 15 years ago. You don't start a business like this with a full roster of clients. I worked full-time at night for 5 years while I built the business from nothing. Slowly, client-by-client, until now I have one of the most successful hull cleaning businesses in the Bay Area. So when I say I have performed over 20,000 in-water hull cleanings over 15 years, it may average out to 5 a day (you must really have your panties in a bunch to actually do the math on that. Holy christ

) but it took all of that initial 5 years before I had enough business to quit my night gig and do the hull cleaning full-time.

Further, I own another marine maintenance service that I also am building from scratch. I keep two additional divers and a pumpout boat driver busy all year long. I sit on the Board of Directors of the California Professional Divers Association. I also sit on an advisory panel for invasive species for the Sea Grant program here. In addition, I am an active member of the California Clean Boating Network for both the Northern California and Delta chapters.

So I stay plenty busy and I make a pretty good living doing it. I'm an expert in my field, am well-known in the local recreational boating industry and know a little bit about owning a small business as well.

You, OTOH, have a real atittude problem and I'm surprised they allow you to be a "Board Guide", whatever the hell that is. You jumped on me in this thread, unprovoked, and denigrated both my work ethic and the dive gear I use to do that work. Real professional

If I gave a crap, I'd complain to the real board mods about they way I was treated here by you. But that's not how I roll.

 

[Thalassamania]

You need to get a sense of humor.

I have a highly developed sense of humor, it comes as stock equipment wit a highly developed BS detector.

OK, I wasn't gonna explain the realities of owning a small business to you, but since you clearly haven't a clue about it and seem to have an issue with how much work you think I do, I will. I started my business from scratch 15 years ago. You don't start a business like this with a full roster of clients. I worked full-time at night for 5 years while I built the business from nothing. Slowly, client-by-client, until now I have one of the most successful hull cleaning businesses in the Bay Area. So when I say I have performed over 20,000 in-water hull cleanings over 15 years, it may average out to 5 a day (you must really have your panties in a bunch to actually do the math on that. Holy christ

) but it took all of that initial 5 years before I had enough business to quit my night gig and do the hull cleaning full-time.

OK, so for those first slow five years you made less than 5 dives per day, and for the last 10 years you've made more than 5 per day ... is that what you are saying?

Further, I own another marine maintenance service that I also am building from scratch. I keep two additional divers and a pumpout boat driver busy all year long. I sit on the Board of Directors of the California Professional Divers Association. I also sit on an advisory panel for invasive species for the Sea Grant program here. In addition, I am an active member of the California Clean Boating Network for both the Northern California and Delta chapters.

So I stay plenty busy and I make a pretty good living doing it. I'm an expert in my field, am well-known in the local recreational boating industry and know a little bit about owning a small business as well.

You, OTOH, have a real atittude problem and I'm surprised they allow you to be a "Board Guide", whatever the hell that is. You jumped on me in this thread, unprovoked, and denigrated both my work ethic and the dive gear I use to do that work. Real professional

If I gave a crap, I'd complain to the real board mods about they way I was treated here by you. But that's not how I roll.

No, it was not unprovoked, nor was it inappropriate. Here's why:

1. The subject that was being discussed was the best choice of equipment for marine surveying in harbors, not recreational boat bottom cleaning in marinas, very different topics.

   I am a marine surveyor and thus have to survey various types of vessels and marine facilities. Sometimes there is a need to hire divers to review a hull or running gear without hauling the vessel. Heres my question, what level of dive education do I need to do an occasional dive on a ship or dock to take some pics without having to pay a full blown commercial diver? I have done ships husbandry diving in college, but as I get older, and more educated as a diver, I am becoming way more conservative. Currently I have an advanced and nitrox cert. While there are commercial dive schools, they seem way more indepth than I need. I cannot see going below 50 feet, and would not need to communicate with the surface or anything, so no hard hat diving. Just scuba.

2. Excellent advice from a number of experienced light-commercial divers was provided, including the alternative of using an ROV.
3. You jumped in with incorrect information and, what is (IMHO) bad advice:

   Despite what others have posted here about the need for tenders and OSHA regulations, blah, blah, blah, my experience is for inspections, hull cleaning, light salvage and similar jobs; if you can dive, you can work. No tenders needed and few (or no) regulations to follow (certainly no federal regulations.) Individual marinas may require that you carry ship repairers liabiltiy insurance, but even that is not is not a given. I have owned my hull cleaning business here in the Bay Area for over 15 years. I am not even a certified diver. I have done jobs for insurance companies, marinas, charter companies, sailing schools, boat yards, ferry services, police departments, even the United States government and have never, ever been asked if my company met any OSHA regulations. It's basically a non-issue.
   
   Go to work, you don't have a problem.

   That leads me to the conclusion that you really don't know what you are talking about and that you have never read 29 CFR Part 1910.
4. Several experienced light commercial divers contradicted you, but you insisted on going on:

   Despite what others have posted here about the need for tenders and OSHA regulations, blah, blah, blah, my experience is for inspections, hull cleaning, light salvage and similar jobs; if you can dive, you can work. No tenders needed and few (or no) regulations to follow (certainly no federal regulations.) Individual marinas may require that you carry ship repairers liabiltiy insurance, but even that is not is not a given. I have owned my hull cleaning business here in the Bay Area for over 15 years. I am not even a certified diver. I have done jobs for insurance companies, marinas, charter companies, sailing schools, boat yards, ferry services, police departments, even the United States government and have never, ever been asked if my company met any OSHA regulations. It's basically a non-issue.
   
   Go to work, you don't have a problem.

   and

   I'm not discounting the need to dive safely, just stating the reality of the hull cleaning industry. NOBODY uses a tender. And to be honest, since 99.9% of the work occurs within 6 or 7 feet of the surface (and most of it is even shallower) I don't think it's a particulary critical consideration.

5. Nobody was talking about the hull cleaning industry.
6. You clearly do not know the rules and regulations and I have serious doubt that you've ever read your professional liability policy or given any thought to what your position would be if one of your employees were to be injured while diving in a manner that is prohibited by both Cal Osha and Fed Osha. You see, the Osha consequences are small compared to the legal consequences. The courts don't care if you are subject to Osha or not, all they care about is that you were meeting accepted standards and you'll have a rather hard time convincing anyone that you know more about diving safety than Osha does.
7. Finally, in response to my post:

   It's all fine, 'till it's not ... and then (if you are not in compliance with ALL published rules and regulations) you're in very deep do-do. So stick your head in the pile ... it'll catch up with you when you least expect it. As muddiver said, "Your funeral, mate." But it may just be your economic funeral. Do it right or don't do it.

   You say:
   

   With over 15 years and more than 20,000 dives on the job, I'm pretty sure I know what I'm doing.

8. I think that it is quite clear, and demonstrable that you don't kbnow what you are doing and you prove that with your choice of harbor diving gear and you claim to have made in excess of five dives a day for everyworking day ... a claim that goes directly to the heart of your credibility.
9. Then you go on to do your long intromittent organ dance (IMHO a juvenile act), calling names, yack, yack, yack.

We'll, frankly I don't believe you and I think you are providing bad and unsafe advise. You can do what you want, but when you puff yourself up as an expert you need to be ready to back them up with something more than a list of the offices you've held. It's like what Ed Hillary told my incoming class when I was inducted into the Explorers Club, "You need to be careful when you talk about where you've been and what you've seen when you're here in the club. There's likely someone at that the bar whose been there too." It's kind of the same thing here on Scubaboard. Whilst we tolerate (and fuss at times) about differences of opinion ... there are no differences of opinion when it comes to facts and name calling does nothing to alter that fact.

 

[fstbttms]

Why do you give a s**t about how much work I do, or do not do? Your preoccupation with this is just weird.

 

[vshearer]

Why do you give a s**t about how much work I do, or do not do? Your preoccupation with this is just weird.

Yet entertaining.

 

[Thalassamania]

Why do you give a s**t about how much work I do, or do not do? Your preoccupation with this is just weird.

Is it really that obtuse?

Is anyone one else having trouble getting the message?

 

[fstbttms]

You crack me up, old man, you really do.

 

[rjack321]

I assume, as you advertise, you clean boat bottoms.

If you think that a copy of an old Cressi FFM and a dry suit is adequate protection from S.F. Bay water and the chemicals that come off of boat bottoms ... have at it, I wouldn't do it.

Mostly copper, trivial amounts of lead, TBT is banned, minor amounts of anti-photosynthetic herbicides. None of which are really all that dermally available. Best not to incidentally ingest the water but that's pretty standard. Biggest short term risk is probably bacteria from sewage not anything in the paint. At least in WA State a boat painted with ablative paint must be hauled to clean its bottom. Only hard paints can be scrubbed by divers so its really mostly just bacterial slime coming off.

EPA's dive team (which works at CERCLA aka Superfund sites) uses drysuits, dry gloves & hood, and AGA masks, there's really nothing all that fancy about underwater PPE.

Otherwise I agree that Title 29 CFR part 1910 (among a few others) applies to the OP. Including a buddy or a tender and some rather outmoded requirements like J valves etc. Those federal sections (actually state adopted equivelants) apply to fstbttms as well. Too bad he doesn't know it yet.

 

[Thalassamania]

I'm amazed that EPA's team does that, that violates NOAA rules for contaminated water diving ... even positive pressure AGA's don't cut it ... you need a Superlight mated to the suit with doubled exhaust wiskers.

 

[rjack321]

I'm amazed that EPA's team does that, that violates NOAA rules for contaminated water diving ... even positive pressure AGA's don't cut it ... you need a Superlight mated to the suit with doubled exhaust wiskers.

Yes they run the AGAs in positive pressure mode. Otherwise in general their exposures are pretty minor - mostly to resuspended contaminated sediment. NOAA rules don't apply and OSHA leaves such PPE decisions up to the health and safety officers for any given employer/project. As long as you have a plan that's not wildly off base CYA is complete.