Liquid Ventilation?

[College Diver]

Liquid Ventilation?

I was discussing the liquid rebreather scenes from the movie The Abyss with some classmates from my scuba course at school and was shocked to hear that this piece of technology is science fact.
I have been doing research on this all day, and all I can find are medical clinical studies done with animals.

Where can I get information on Perflubron Liquid Ventilation, used in a diving context?

I was told that the Navy had issues where their diver were contracting pneumonia after dives as a result of not being able to expel all of the liquid from their lungs - anyone know where I can get information to verify this?

 

[fppf]

Last time I did some research on it I could not find any cases where it is used in Diving.

I did find some cases where it was used as an experimental treatment for smoke inhalation and other sevear lung injuries.

The problem with it is not O2 delivery, the liquid can not hold enough CO2. Without the ability to remove CO2 it is almost usless.

 

[College Diver]

Thanks for the heads up

 

[Mr.X]

I also heard that there were some issues with the removal of surfactant from the lungs...leading to your previously mentioned direct and secondary illnesses.

Interesting concept though. I also remember that defunct TIME, or LOOK magazine (?) had color spreads on the thing in the early 70's. I remember as I pulled out the pages and put them on my wall as a kid.

X

 

[College Diver]

No idea which magazine or year? (I am doing a research project on breathing liquid)

 

[MookieMoose]

Liquid Ventilation?

I was discussing the liquid rebreather scenes from the movie The Abyss with some classmates from my scuba course at school and was shocked to hear that this piece of technology is science fact.
I have been doing research on this all day, and all I can find are medical clinical studies done with animals.

Where can I get information on Perflubron Liquid Ventilation, used in a diving context?

I was told that the Navy had issues where their diver were contracting pneumonia after dives as a result of not being able to expel all of the liquid from their lungs - anyone know where I can get information to verify this?

Liquid ventilation is not used in diving. Perflubron is the trade name of a Russian-make perfluorocarbon emulsion that is only available in Russia, Khazakstan, and a few other former Soviet republics. Other similar chemical compunds are being actively studied for several condotions - I am investigating their utility as a non-recompression treatment option for DCS and AGE. The CO2 problem mentioned is not with regard to their ability to dissolve CO2, the solubility of CO2 in perfluorocarbons is higher than their oxygen solubility, the trouble is getting the CO2 out again in a closed-circuit system - they would have to be exposed to an environment with little to no CO2 in order to remove the CO2, and this would be very difficult in a rebreather.

Cam

 

[Gene_Hobbs]

Liquid ventilation is not used in diving.

but it was researched.... Here are a few select publications on "Liquid Breathing":

A brief review: liquid ventilation.
Shaffer. Undersea Biomed Res. 1987 Mar;14(2):169-79.
RRR ID: 3097

The Feasibility of Liquid Breathing in Man.
Kylstra. 1977 ONR report
RRR ID: 4257

Liquid breathing.
Kylstra. Undersea Biomed Res. 1974 Sep;1(3):259-69.
RRR ID: 2665

Rahn, Hermann. Liquid breathing state-of-the-art assessment review meeting, 24-26 January 1974 / Hermann Rahn, chairman. Washington, D.C. : Wheeler Industries, Inc., 1974.
Found at: Duke University Medical Center/ Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society Collection

I am investigating their utility as a non-recompression treatment option for DCS and AGE.

The topic of Perfluorocarbon use in treatment of DCS is a great one. Here are a few more publications... (From Mookie's office... )

Treatment of Decompression Sickness in Swine With Intravenous Perfluorocarbon Emulsion.
Dromsky et. al. Aviat Space Environ Med. 2004 Apr;75(4):301-5.
RRR ID: 3807

Decompression sickness in a swine model: isobaric denitrogenation and perfluorocarbon at depth.
Mahon et. al. Aviat Space Environ Med. 2006 Jan;77(1):8-12.
PubMed ID: 16422447

Short oxygen prebreathing and intravenous perfluorocarbon emulsion reduces morbidity and mortality in a swine saturation model of decompression sickness.
Dainer et. al. J Appl Physiol. 2007 Mar;102(3):1099-104. Epub 2006 Nov 9.
PubMed ID: 17095628

Nice presentation by Gary Latson in:
Moon RE (ed). Adjunctive Therapy for Decompression Illness. 53rd Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society Workshop. UHMS Publication Number WD650. Bethesda: Undersea and Hyperbaric Medical Society; 2003; 194 pages.

Reduction in air bubble size using perfluorocarbons during cardiopulmonary bypass in the rat.
K Yosh itani et. al. Anesth Analg. 2006 Nov;103(5):1089-93.
PubMed ID: 17056937

There is a ton of reading out there on both topics...

 

[Dr. Doug Ebersole]

We were involved in a couple of clinical research studies using liquid ventilation about 7-8 years ago in the intensive care units at our hospital for patients with ARDS (adult respiratory distress syndrome). It showed some promise, but is very difficult to use in terms of balancing the volume and needing to keep patients flat, etc.

 

[mddolson]

I call do some reading on the subject (a while ago :late 90s).
As I recall (jump in & correct me if I'm wrong) the problem was not so much with oxygenation as it was with CO2 build up.

Mike D

 

[scubanimal]

I think there were two challenges for which a satifactory solution has not been created; one was the removal of the C02 and the other issue was the work of breathing. Moving a liquid is tough. I think the medical field was looking at some form of artificial respiration system.